Page 1 of 1

TROTH

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:12 pm
by Dr. Goodword
• troth •

Pronunciation: troth • Hear it!

Part of Speech: Noun

Meaning: 1. A solemn pledge, a solemn covenant based on good faith, a betrothal. 2. Your word of honor, the personal integrity upon which your word of honor is based.

Notes: A trothful person is one who is trustworthy, someone as good as his or her word, not at all the same as a truthful person, though both traits are admirable. Avoid trothless people; they will disappoint you. The meaning of the verb from this Good Word, betroth, has narrowed to refer only to a promise to give in marriage only, to agree to an engagement, as to be betrothed to a man of troth.

In Play: You can pledge a troth, but troth is also the integrity that guarantees that pledge: "If Tess Tosterone said she would throw you out the window if you bothered her again, I would believe her; her word is her troth." If you would prefer not to pledge your troth, you may plight it: "I will plight you my troth, Leland, and I will be a good wife to you if your work keeps you away from the house for substantial periods."

Word History: Today's Good Word comes from Old English treowth "truth", as does truth itself. It originates in the PIE root *dreu- "to be firm, solid, steadfast." That quality has been interpreted differently in various Indo-European languages. In Serbian is appears as drevo "tree, wood", not far from where it landed in Greek: drus "oak" and dendron "tree". In Latin we see it in durus "hard", borrowed by English for durable. Finally, druid was borrowed from Latin druides "druids", which comes from a Celtic compound dreu-wid- “strong, steadfast seer”, referring to Celtic priests. It is made up of *dreu- plus *wid- "to see", the root which led through Latin to English video and vision.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:09 pm
by Brazilian dude
"If Tess Tosterone said she would throw you out the window if you bothered her again, I would believe her; her word is her troth."
Funny.
In Serbian is appears as drevo "tree, wood", not far from where it landed in Greek:
And Polish drzewo, Russian/Ukrainian дерево (derevo) Macedonian
дрво (drvo) and Czech dřevo.

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:39 am
by Garzo
The traditional English marriage vows end with the word troth. There is a slight difference between the sexes that I cannot quite figure out.

The bridegroom says:
...and thereto I plight thee my troth.
The bride says:
...and thereto I give thee my troth.
I wonder if this is because the pledge of troth is considered more business-like and manly -- let's shake on it -- whereas giving troth is considered more submissive.

-- Garzo.

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:27 pm
by Brazilian dude
...and thereto I give thee my troth.
It sounds kinky, doesn't it?

Brazilian dude

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:36 pm
by anders
Not to me, it don't.

But

a wedding, by any other name,

and/or

why even involve religion in registering of partnerships?

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:43 pm
by KatyBr
Anders did you write that just to register your disapproval? Church weddings are traditional, if you want one that's not, go to a Justice of the peace or your equivalent of drive-thru weddings, like in Las Vegas..... you can get married by a ghoul or clown, or 'alien' there.

Katy

or my alternate answer: Why not? Marriage needs all the help it can get, what with the selfish way people tend to be...no, I'm not talking about you, all of us are selfish.

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:52 pm
by anders
Well, I don't consider church marriages kinky, if that's what you're driving at.

OTOH, I think that any union between two legally competent persons should be possible to have performed by a person acknowledged by the judicial system, and that it should have equal rights compared to any other such union.

For those who additionally want the blessing of their particular god or similar entity, that should be something for them and their congregation to work out.

"Drive-thru weddings", on the third hand, sounds too exotic to me.

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:54 pm
by KatyBr
Anders, you know I've long desired to install a third arm, I got the permit but failed to find just the right spot to install it, I must congratulate on your decisiveness.

Katy
Also to comment on this
I think that any union between two legally competent persons should be possible to have performed by a person acknowledged by the judicial system, and that it should have equal rights compared to any other such union.
JoP weddings are aknowledged here.... if you are refering to wanting to marry another man, go for it, just do it!
'course I know you don't want to, but if anyone wants to.....same-o-same-o
Well, I don't consider church marriages kinky, if that's what you're driving at.
nope, I'm afoot. :lol:

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:38 am
by Iterman
I think Anders right in thinking what he is thinking AND that Kathy is correct in pointing out the tradition. Remember that marriage is much older than enlightment and that in the very old days few things were done without asking for the help of (the) God(s). At the cultural level of the Vikings a field couldn't be sown without the presence of a priest and even today one or more is called upon when building a house in i.e. Japan.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:01 am
by KatyBr
enlightenment? ....... well don't count us out yet.... btw our Bible says those who don't believe are "in darkness". Just wanted to make that point. :)

Katy
look ma... no "h"

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:27 am
by Verbum
Hi Garzo,

It is not so long ago that in many jurisdictions of the Western world, a woman could not contract without the authorization of her parent, guardian or husband. Indeed a woman could not open a bank account without the consent of these males.

In this context, "plight" would seem to imply a legally valid contract, whereas the simple "give" would be a solemn promise.

(It goes without saying that this inferior position of the woman still exists in many places, notably in Muslim countries.)

Robert

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:00 pm
by anders
1917-1955, Swedish married women weren't allowed to possess the "motbok", the document that allowed you to buy alcoholic fluids. The husband was allowed a slightly larger allowance on marriage. Single women were allowed a smaller quantity than single men.

Contrasting, there are societies like the Naxi people in SW China (the x is pronounced like in German ich). Women rule there (and do most of the work as well). Children are children of their mothers; no special effort is made to recognise paternity. Try for example this site for more info.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:52 pm
by Brazilian dude
Alcoholic fluids is funny. I don't know, sounds kinky.

Brazilian dude

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:48 pm
by anders
Alcoholic fluids
aka wine, hard liquor like vodka and whiskey, and even export strenght beer if you had a doctor's prescription.