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CONFABULATE

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Confabulate

Postby Philip Hudson » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:35 pm

More on grass widow, call_copse:

The idea of grass widow first applying to a loose woman may have some merit. Compare it with “Green Sleeves”. It is the name of a famous melody to which the words “What Child is This?” are sung. There is another, probably original, set of romantic words. I have head that the origin of this phrase describes a wanton who, in passionate abandon, takes a tumble in the grass with her lover, thus getting grass stains on her sleeves.
It is dark at night, but the Sun will come up and then we can see.
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grass widow and greensleeves revisited

Postby wurdpurrson » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:51 pm

My southern relations on my dad's side of the family, mostly Oklahoma Native Americans, touted the same meaning; perhaps it became a regional application of the phrase. But relations from my mother's family, originating east and north into Canada, subscribed to the primary meanings in the example from worldwidewords. They were Scots and Brits, about four generations ago.

The traditional English folk song, Greensleeves, dates back to the late 16th century, as I remember from my old theatre days. I used to sing it as a "folkie". Shakespeare mentioned the song in Merry Wives of Windsor (1602?). I'd read that King Henry VIII wrote the words to his queen/consort Anne Bolyn when he was wooing her, but he was dead before the first Elizabethan publishing of the song. The color green did have sexual connotations then, and Greensleeves could have referred to a prostitute (one who rolled on the green). But in Chaucer's Canterbury tales, green was translated as a colour of lightness in love, I think. The traditional words (as I recall them - it's been a long time) tend to support this alternative viewpoint: "Alas, my love you do me wrong to cast me out discourteously, for I have loved you so long, delighting in your company". (then chorus). I personally think the lady of ill-repute definition came long after the 16th - 17th century.
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Postby LukeJavan8 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:33 pm

Familiar, of course, with "Greensleeves", but never
questioned the title. Chaucer, yes, but the
whole topic just does not ever seem to have
awakened in my drowsy consciousness. Very
interesting topic, however.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----
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Postby wurdpurrson » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:53 pm

Very diplomatic comment. I promise no mreo dissertations for awhile.
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Postby wurdpurrson » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:55 pm

Oops - typo. I meant "more"
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Postby LukeJavan8 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:45 pm

wurdpurrson wrote:Very diplomatic comment. I promise no mreo dissertations for awhile.



I did not mind it a bit. I like it when I learn things,
and that was not a dissertation. No apologies needed
from my point of view: sometimes it takes a while
to explain things, and that took sometime as I've
never given any thought to "Greensleeves" and the
like. Thanks.


I have relatives of Native American heritage as well:
Iroquois.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----
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Postby wurdpurrson » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:57 pm

My Dad's family were either Osage or Creek. Exact records of the many Cherokee Nation tribes in the Oklahoma Indian Territory are spotty at best, particularly from that long ago. They were a strong and independent bunch, though; some would say stubborn.
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Postby LukeJavan8 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:03 pm

Mine were Tuscarora nation. Joined the five nations
of the Iroquois when they were driven from the
Carolinas early on. They became the sixth nation.
People of the Longhouse.
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Postby wurdpurrson » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:15 pm

It's a satisfying heritage, isn't it? Even diluted, it's good to be able to identify the lineage in your own self, and to recognize how it might have informed your life.
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Postby LukeJavan8 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:24 pm

Extremely satisfying. This nation is a great melting
pot, but where one comes from is also important.
I feel sorry for those who don't care.
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Postby wurdpurrson » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:36 pm

Exactly.
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Postby LukeJavan8 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:44 am

Oftentimes in school, teachers have projects where
kids have to make their family trees. It is so sad
when kids come back and cannot go beyond maybe
one grandparent, and the parents don't care to
help them find out.
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Postby wurdpurrson » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:49 pm

I found a good friend years ago, who had been given up for adoption at birth, and didn't discover that fact until after her adoptive parents both died in a vehicle crash. She found the adoption documents while going through their belongings. It sent her into a tailspin for a time, but she finally decided, at age 34, that she was going to track her birth family. Her comment was, "I need real roots!" I think that we all do, whether or not we choose to acknowledge it.
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Postby LukeJavan8 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:14 pm

Good for her!
I would think many, many adopted folks would feel the
same way. I think if I were giving up a child for
adoption I'd want that child to have some, and
provide the adoptive parents with some info, provided,
of course, they would accept it to be give to their
child in due course.
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Postby wurdpurrson » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:34 pm

It's a ticklish issue, with strong feelings all around and not all of them charitable. I've known several adoptees, and a few women who were forced to give up a child for whatever reason. I'm fortunate to have been born into a welcoming family.
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