loggerheads

[Bailey]

be at loggerheads
if two people or groups are at loggerheads, they disagree strongly about something. They're constantly at loggerheads with the farmers' union. (often + with) The Senate and the House are still at loggerheads over the most crucial parts of the bill. (sometimes + over)
Cambridge International Dictionary of Idioms © Cambridge University Press 1998

but this wasn't enough so I checked more

log·ger·head (lô'gər-hĕd', lŏg'ər-)
n.
A loggerhead turtle.
An iron tool consisting of a long handle with a bulbous end, used when heated to melt tar or warm liquids.
Nautical. A post on a whaleboat used to secure the harpoon rope.
Informal.
A blockhead; a dolt.
A disproportionately large head.http://www.answers.com/topic/loggerhead

still not enough, where did the idiom come from?

Meaning

In dispute with.

Origin

Of UK origin. The word loggerhead is now not much used apart from in this odd phrase, and as a name - of a species of turtle, a bird and as a placename. It had two, now archaic, meanings but it isn't clear which is the source of the phrase. One meaning is 'a stupid person - a blockhead'. Shakespeare used it with that meaning in Love's Labours Lost, 1588:

"Ah you whoreson logger-head, you were borne to doe me shame."

It is also recorded as 'an iron instrument with a long handle used for melting pitch and for heating liquids'. This could also be what's referred to in 'at loggerheads'.

The first use of the phrase known in print is in Francis Kirkman's, 'The English Rogue', 1680:

"They frequently quarrell'd about their Sicilian wenches, and indeed..they seem..to be worth the going to Logger-heads for."

Loggerheads is also a small town in Staffordshire - a gift for jokers - 'Are you going on holiday this year? Yes, I'll be having a fortnight at Loggerheads with the wife'. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/at-loggerheads.html

Of these meanings, the only ones that I've encountered in common use are the turtle name and the idiom "at loggerheads". Given how little explicit metaphorical support the idiom has, it's interesting that it survives so well. http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/language ... 01043.html

Well, anyone know what the word started as?

mark log-head Bailey

[Ferrus]

I was always told in originated in Canada among lumberjacks. As logs flowed down the river they became stuck and so were 'at loggerheads'.

Probably folk etymology though.

[Bailey]

So Shakespeare saw this while on vacation in Canada. I wonder if they used river-locamotion for logging in early Britain?

mark just-kidding-I-thought-your's-was-the-origin-also Bailey

[Stargzer]

I found a reference to a loggerhead in this recipe for flip, a drink from American Colonial times. The basic flip recipe sounds like a sweetened version of a boilermaker.

Into this mixture was thrust and stirred a red-hot loggerhead, made of iron and shaped like a poker, and the seething iron made the liquor foam and bubble and mantle high, and gave it the burnt, bitter taste so dearly loved.

I'd be inclined to agree that waving red-hot iron pokers at each other would definitely fall within the definition of "disagreement."

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From Wikipedia: A Baptist boilermaker is a cup of coffee served with a glass of seltzer water.

[Bailey]

burnt, bitter taste so dearly loved

sounds yummy

mark sour-bitter Bailey