Alphadictionary.com

Our Sponsors

Technical Translation
Website Translation Clip Art
 

halberd

Use this forum to suggest Good Words for Professor Beard.

halberd

Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:22 pm

halberd

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby Grogie » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:08 pm

Wonderful word Brazilian Dude.
Grogie
Lexiterian
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:23 am
Location: Michigan, United States

Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:11 pm

Yes, it is. I was wondering how you say that in other languages (including Portuguese).

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby M. Henri Day » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:21 pm

Swedish «hillebard», Danish «hellebard» ; variations of same in German, Dutch, etc. French «hallebarde», Italian «alabarda»....

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Postby frank » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:22 pm

M. Henri Day wrote:Swedish «hillebard», Danish «hellebard» ; variations of same in German, Dutch, etc. French «hallebarde», Italian «alabarda»....


In Dutch it's indeed "hellebaard", Middle Dutch "hellebaerde", "helmbaerde", 'helm' meaning 'steel' (+/- pole, long stick) and ba(e)rde meaning 'axe'.
Possible cognates of "baerde" are Gr. "perthein" ('to destroy, to kill') and Old Irish "brissim" ('i break').

Frank
frank
Lexiterian
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Antwerpen, Belgium

Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:52 pm

Italian alabarda has taken me to Portuguese/Spanish/Catalan alabarda and Romanian halebardă . There's even a Portuguese expression, passar pelas alabardas: castigo militar que consistia em carregar de alabardas o soldado que faltava à disciplina, which means pass through the halberds: military punishment that consisted in carrying on halberds the soldier that had not attended discipline (very rough translation).

Thank you, Henri.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:23 pm

BD, reading the Portuguese sentence as if it were a sort of dialectal Italian, I came to an alternative translation, viz, «... military punishment consisting of loading a soldier guilty of a disciplinary infraction down with halbards» (i e, forcing him to carry a great many of the weapons, which must have been extremely heavy). Is this a possible interpretation, and if so, how can one disambiguate between the two ? (Riding on halbards, so long as one didn't have the points of the weapons stuck up one's anatomy, would seem to me less a trial for the rider than for his comrades who presumably bore him.)

Henri
Last edited by M. Henri Day on Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:54 pm

Is this a possible interpretation, and if so, how can one disambiguate between the two ?

I don't know. I don't understand the Portuguese there myself. (Insert embarrassed smiley here.)

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby tcward » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:35 am

I'm neither a Portuguese scholar nor a military scholar, but I believe the standard translation would involve the gerund form, i.e. passing [back or up] the halberds -- which I would loosely translate as passing all the heavy stuff to the new guy (or to the guy who's been causing the most problems lately).

This type of initiation rite is common still today in many groups, isn't it? Standard psychological (read: demeaning) attempt to train someone...

-Tim
User avatar
tcward
Senior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:18 pm
Location: The Old North State

Postby Brazilian dude » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:59 am

as passing all the heavy stuff to the new guy (or to the guy who's been causing the most problems lately).

I'm amazed at Henri and Tim. I wasn't able to arrive at the same conclusion myself because of the verb carregar. I kept thinking of carregar like transportar and imagined people carrying soldiers around with their backs pricked by halberds, but that preposition de proved a stumbling block to me, which, in my view, would have to be changed to com. Now carregar alguém de algo does have the meaning that both Tim and Henri gave, of imposing something on someone. How can I have been so stupid? For a while I thought that the text had been badly written. It looks as if my brain has been badly wired.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby M. Henri Day » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:26 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:... How can I have been so stupid? For a while I thought that the text had been badly written. It looks as if my brain has been badly wired.


Been carrying too many halberds and drinking too much guaraná lately ?...

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Postby Brazilian dude » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:28 pm

Guaraná yeah, but halberds I had no idea what they were until two days ago.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby gailr » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:24 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:Italian alabarda has taken me to Portuguese/Spanish/Catalan alabarda and Romanian halebardă . There's even a Portuguese expression, passar pelas alabardas: castigo militar que consistia em carregar de alabardas o soldado que faltava à disciplina, which means pass through the halberds: military punishment that consisted in carrying on halberds the soldier that had not attended discipline (very rough translation).

Thank you, Henri.

Brazilian dude

I read this as a form of running the gauntlet, although I like the other suggestions, too.
-gailr
User avatar
gailr
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1945
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:40 am

Postby tcward » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:52 pm

Yep, I could agree with that too!

-Tim
...so easy to be noncommittal about these things! ;)
User avatar
tcward
Senior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:18 pm
Location: The Old North State

Postby M. Henri Day » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:13 am

gailr wrote:...

I read this as a form of running the gauntlet, although I like the other suggestions, too.
-gailr


But that would make it difficult to understand the use of the verb «carregar» (to load or load down), unless it's employed here metaphorically. Of course, one could imagine a line of fellow soldiers which the erring soldier had to pass, every soldier in the line giving another halberd to bear until he collapsed under the weight or made it through. But whacking him with the things would seem, as I said, out of place. Perhaps BD could investigate further ?...

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE


Return to Good Word Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron