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Gueuze

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Gueuze

Postby Drunkenemperor » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:58 am

Gueuze

A mixture of young (one-year) and old (two and three-year) lambics which has been bottled. It undergoes secondary fermentation (the so-called méthode champenoise), producing carbon dioxide, because the young lambics are not yet fully fermented. It keeps in the bottle; a good gueuze will be given a year to referment in the bottle, but can be kept for 10-20 years. An obscure German ale style, Gose, is not to be confused with gueuze.


A theory regarding the origins of the names geuze and lambic as put forth by Hubert van Herreweghen (Flemish-Belgian author and gueuze connoisseur) translated by Horst Dornbusch:

"It was also during the Spanish occupation of Brabant that - at least according to one rather fanciful theory - the two Belgian signature brews of gueuze and lambic got their names. According to this tale, the well-provisioned Spanish soldiers used to march into battle with partitioned leather flask dangling from their belts. One half of such a flask was filled with water, the other, with wine. Because of its dual function, the flask was called el ambiguo (Spanish for "double meaning"). The poor local gueux, on the other hand, (gueux is French for "beggars" or "good-for-nothings"), who opposed the worldly Spaniards, merely carried a flask of indigenous sour beer on their marches. The Spanish apparently derided the unpartitioned and thus obviously inferior drinking vessel of the bedraggled locals as a ... gueuze el ambiguo or a gueuze-lambic."
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Postby Flaminius » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:11 pm

Could you provide the pronunciation? Not being a wonted drinker nor a Flemish speaker, I have no clue.
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Postby Drunkenemperor » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:22 pm

Tis controversy regarding the the pronunciation, and spelling of this word. I would defer to a belgian from the insane valley on this , however; from what i understand, its either 'erza'
or 'gerza' or 'gooze/ gooza' . Please forgive my crude use
of the pronounce.

I can tell you that it would be best to analyze this word whilst drinking the product with the brewer.l

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more info

Postby Drunkenemperor » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:48 pm

Legislation
A Belgian Royal Decree of 20 May 1965 concerning the usage of names for beer (published in the Belgisch Staatsblad / Moniteur Belge on June 1965, pp. 7219-7220) restricts usage of the names lambic(French),lambik(Flemish), gueuze(Fr.),geuze(Fl.), gueuze lambic(Fr.),geuze lambik(Fl.), to beers of spontaneous fermentation. They have to contain at least 30 percent wheat and the original density of the wort has to be at least 5 degrees.
A Belgian Royal Decree of 17 July 1973 concerning the usage of names for beer (published in the Belgisch Staatsblad / Moniteur Belge on 18 April 1974, p. 9940) restricts the usage of these names to beers produced by inoculation from the air, by cooling of the wort in an open cooler.
A Royal Decree of 29 March 1974 concerning beer(published in the Belgisch Staatsblad / Moniteur Belge on 4 September 1973, pp. 5490-5493) defines in article 1.2.a even more precise that these beer types are restricted to beer of spontaneous fermentation, with a density of at least 11 degrees Plato and a minimum acidity (min. 30 milli-equivalents NaOH and a volatile acidity of min. 2 milli-equivalents NaOH). At least 30 percent wheat should be used for the production. Since this Royal Dec

ee the Flemish names have been changed to the French spelling in article 4.1.b. .
A Belgian Royal Decree of 31 March 1993 concerning beer (published in the Belgisch Staatsblad / Moniteur Belge on 4 June 1993, pp. 13507-13509) replaces the Royal Decrees of 1965, 1973 and 1974. For the beers of spontaneous fermentation it defines the same rules as the Royal Decree of 1974, but now not all of the beer must be derived from spontaneous fermentation.
A regulation of the European Community of 21 January 1997 according to the regulation (EEC) No. 2082/92 on certificates of specific character for agricultural products and foodstuffs ( GREEN EUROPE. No. 1. 1996. Office for Official Publications of the EC. Luxembourg. 45 p. Tabl. Graph. Ann. Free. ). This European regulation defines new rules for the the lambic beers, the new rules give a better protection of the traditional product. European legislation however protects products based on the traditional production methods or region, not both together. A traditionally produced Geuze will now be called "Old" Geuze.
I just give you the names of the traditional products, as they will be used once the new legislation is incorporated in the national law:
For Geuze it will be:
vieille gueuze, vieille gueuze lambic, and vieux lambic(Fr.), Oude Geuze, Oude Kriek Geuze-Lambiek and Oude Lambiek(Fl.).
For fuit beers derived from Lambic:
vieille kriek, vieille kriek lambic, vieille framboise lambic and vieux fruit lambic(Fr.), Oude Kriek, Oude Krieklambiek, Oude Frambozenlambiek and Oude Fruitlambiek(Fl.).
For Faro, the name is written the same in French and Dutch/Flemish.
The beers that do not have "vieille" or "Oude" in their name will be the more commercial and mostly sweetened mass-market products.

From:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... rbier1.htm
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Postby Grogie » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:49 pm

A very,very interesting word Drunkenemperor. Thank you.
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Postby frank » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:19 pm

Flaminius wrote:Could you provide the pronunciation? Not being a wonted drinker nor a Flemish speaker, I have no clue.


Several possibilities in Dutch (Flanders):

(1) the French way: /g2:z/
g=voiced gutural stop, as in English 'go' (hence <gu>)
2:= as in French 'deux'
z=voiced


(2) or the Flemish way: /x2:s/
x=voiceless gutural spirant
(in Flanders <g> is different from Dutch Dutch <g>)


(3) or a mix of both (as with many words from French): /x2:z@/ or /g2:s/ or /g2:z@/

What's interesting about the words 'geux', 'geus' (beggar/rebel) en 'gueze' (beer) is that they seemingly crossed the language borders a few times: French 'gueux' seems to have been pronounced /g2:/ (female 'geue'). In Dutch this became 'geus', which in itself gave rise to French (or rather Bruxelois-French) 'gueuze'.

Frank From Flanders, but not a Gueuze-drinker

PS: using Sampa .
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Postby Drunkenemperor » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:37 pm

I guess this helps exlpain the saying ' having a case of the geux' meaning a rebel or malcontent, but i wood rather have
a case of gueuze, with 70 percent maltcontent.

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Postby frank » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:15 am

Oops,

I wrote:
(2) or the Flemish way: /x2:s/
x=voiceless gutural spirant
(in Flanders <g> is different from Dutch Dutch <g>)

It should be voiced of course!!!

I guess this helps exlpain the saying ' having a case of the geux' meaning a rebel or malcontent, but i wood rather have
a case of gueuze, with 70 percent maltcontent.


Nope, /geus/ will help you to get a gueuze in the average Flemish bar. :-)

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Re: more info

Postby M. Henri Day » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:59 pm

Drunkenemperor wrote: ...
A Royal Decree of 29 March 1974 concerning beer(published in the Belgisch Staatsblad / Moniteur Belge on 4 September 1973, pp. 5490-5493) defines in article 1.2.a even more precise that these beer types are restricted to beer of spontaneous fermentation, with a density of at least 11 degrees Plato and a minimum acidity (min. 30 milli-equivalents NaOH and a volatile acidity of min. 2 milli-equivalents NaOH). ...


Ask Real Beer

January 2000

Where exactly does the name "degrees Plato" come from? In other words, who is the Plato being referred to here? I couldn't find an answer in any encyclopedia or beer book anywhere.


From Beer Dave: The specific gravity (density) of the liquid known as wort is measured by a saccharometer. This device used to measure dissolved sugars was invented by a man named Balling. His scale was found to render results which were close but no cigar. So a Dr. Plato of Germany made corrections to the original device. In brewing we now refer to degrees Plato when measuring the specific gravity of the wort. Plato has done a great deal for those who think when they drink. Dr. Plato has perfected the tool which allows us to think deeply when consuming the "Nectar of the Gods" because the beer is good and the mind can wonder.


Just in case anybody asked....

Henri

PS : By the way, welcome to the Agora, Drunken emperor ! Glad to see that you chaps down there have finally gotten wired !...
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Dr. Plato and Balling

Postby Drunkenemperor » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:13 pm

Dr. Plato , this is interesting; if anyone can can find a more
specific name for this researcher besides DR. I was aware of
the Balling scale of measuring wort density, the Brix scale is used in light refractometering of wort density. Not sure if Brix and degrees plato are of equal value.
Demo baka ha shinanakya naoranai


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Postby anders » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:09 pm

Drinking Belgian beer in Belgium.

There's nothing like it.

Sitting at the Muntplein in Brussels, successfully having avoided that tourist trap Grand Place, enjoying a rrreal Belgian monastery produced very dark and aromatic beer in an oversized brandy snifter - that's pure bliss.

But I might equally well have ordered a geuze. And I'll leave the kriek and frambozen and whatever to the natives.
Irren ist männlich
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Postby Flaminius » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:34 am

Demo baka ha shinanakya naoranai

酔漢必ずしも愚者に非ず。
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Postby Spiff » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:33 am

anders wrote:
Sitting at the Muntplein in Brussels, ... , enjoying a rrreal Belgian monastery produced very dark and aromatic beer in an oversized brandy snifter


A pretty accurate description of what I'll be doing later this afternoon. :D
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Postby Drunkenemperor » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:53 am

Demo baka ha shinanakya naoranai


only death can cure a fool.

Demo baka ha shinanakya naoranai


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pronunciation wav's

Postby Drunkenemperor » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:39 pm

(1) the French way: /g2:z/
g=voiced gutural stop, as in English 'go' (hence <gu>)
2:= as in French 'deux'
z=voiced

(2) or the Flemish way: /x2:s/
x=voiceless gutural spirant
(in Flanders <g> is different from Dutch Dutch <g>)

(3) or a mix of both (as with many words from French): /x2:z@/ or /g2:s/ or /g2:z@/


http://www.belgianstyle.com/mmguide/pro ... /gueze.wav
http://www.belgianstyle.com/mmguide/pro ... gueuze.wav
http://www.belgianstyle.com/mmguide/pro ... /gueze.wav
Demo baka ha shinanakya naoranai


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