Alphadictionary.com

Our Sponsors

Technical Translation
Website Translation Clip Art
 

English has hit the Billion mark

Miscellaneous Other Topics.

Postby Brazilian dude » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:40 pm

That goes on in at least all the Romance languages, since Germanic languages are more synthetic and Romance are more analytic. You can easily place a noun before another noun in Germanic languages and turn words of different classes into whatever, but neither is possible in Romance languages, which rely very much on noun + de + noun and verbs ending in -ar, -er, and -ir or something similar to that. So, I agree with you, you can say the same thing in English using fewer words than you would in most languages, at least the ones I'm familiar with.

On a side note, a dubber relative of mine says the hardest word to dub into Portuguese was help as in the interjection, since you have to squeeze in the three syllables of socorro.
By the way, we have wonderful dubbing in Brazil. The voices are many times even very similar to the original ones and we try to dub a given actor with the same voice so that the audience will not be taken aback.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby Spiff » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:31 am

That sounds better than what they do in Poland, where one voice dubs all the actors and actresses. The same voice also explains what's happening when nothing is being said (like "He stares out of the window. A car is approaching. etc.")

At least, that's how it was some ten years ago. It might have changed by now. I still prefer subtitles anyway.
Spaceman Spiff

"The capacity for humankind to centralize its importance in the grand scheme of things is quite impressive."
- Tim Ward
Spiff
Junior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:15 am
Location: Lubbeek, BE

Postby Brazilian dude » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:52 am

On open channels movies are dubbed, on a satellite dish you can choose to see it in the original language or in Portuguese. If it's a DVD, you can choose between the original language (normally English), Portuguese and Spanish. In the movie theater most movies are subtitled, unless they are intended for children, who can't read or can't read that fast.

I agree with you, they are much better in the original version.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby William » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:01 pm

You can easily place a noun before another noun in Germanic languages and turn words of different classes into whatever, but neither is possible in Romance languages, which rely very much on noun + de + noun and verbs ending in -ar, -er, and -ir or something similar to that.


I'll take your word for it that this is true in general, BD, but I can think of three words in one of the Romance languages, Spanish, that are compounds of prepositions and nouns,
"parabrisas", "paragolpes", "anteojos", and two that are compounds of verbs and nouns "chupacabres" and "vuelacerca". I'm sure there are many more. I have heard another Spanish coinage that is a combo of a noun and an adjective: "Marimacha".

William
William
Junior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:48 pm

Postby Brazilian dude » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:17 pm

Parabrisas, paragolpes, and chupacabras are composed of a verb and a noun. Anteojos is a prefix (preposition) plus a noun. Vuelacerca is a verb + an adverb and marimacha (or marimacho) is two nouns. What I meant to say is that words are not created ad libitum as they seem to be in English.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby William » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:32 am

Parabrisas, paragolpes, and chupacabras are composed of a verb and a noun. Anteojos is a prefix (preposition) plus a noun. Vuelacerca is a verb + an adverb and marimacha (or marimacho) is two nouns. What I meant to say is that words are not created ad libitum as they seem to be in English.


Hmmm, BD. Try this, "para" is a Spanish preposition which translates to "for" in English. "For" is not a verb. "Brisas" means "breezes" or "wind" both nouns. The word "parabrisas" refers to the windshield of the car.

The word "paragolpes" refers to the bumper of the car. The word "golpe" may translate as "bump" or "blow" in English. I believe that it is a noun derived from the verb "golpear", or maybe the verb is derived from the noun.

Here is a list of possible translations for "golpear" from yourdictionary.com's language translator:

STRIKE, KNOCK, HIT, SLAP, BEAT, BEAT UP ON, PUNCH, BOP, THUMP, CLIP, BANG, SMITE, SLOG, WHACK, WALLOP, RAP, DRIVE, KICK, THRASH, BEETLE, FLAIL, LASH, RATTLE, SLAM, SLICE, TEE OFF, BAT, CLUB, JAB, BUMP, BUFFET, CLOBBER

I believe you are correct about the word "anteojos", a combination of the preposition "ante" (before) and the noun "ojos", (eyes) I believe that you are also correct about the word "chupacabras" which is a combination of the verb "chupar" (to suck) and the noun "cabra" (goat). The "chupacabras" (sucker of goat blood) was the subject of an urban legend that swept through Mexico several years ago.

The word "vuelacerca" is a combination of the verb "voler" (to fly) and "cerca" (fence). It is a sports term that translates roughly into English as "home run", a baseball term. A home run is achieved when the batter hits the ball over the fence within the boundary lines which run at right angles from home base to the fence several hundred feet away (typically 350 ft to left or right field, sometimes more than 400 ft to center field). In Mexico where the game of baseball is very popular, the word "jonron" is more common though I have also heard the word "vuelacerca".

"Marimacha" is a combination of the name "Maria" and the word "macho" which is an adjective used to describe manliness. In the word "Marimacha" the "macho" component is feminized with the "a" ending instead of the "o". The word refers to women with same sex orientation.

William
William
Junior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:48 pm

Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:29 am

Hmmm, BD. Try this, "para" is a Spanish preposition which translates to "for" in English. "For" is not a verb. "Brisas" means "breezes" or "wind" both nouns. The word "parabrisas" refers to the windshield of the car.

The word "paragolpes" refers to the bumper of the car. The word "golpe" may translate as "bump" or "blow" in English. I believe that it is a noun derived from the verb "golpear", or maybe the verb is derived from the noun.

No, deriva del verbo parar, en el sentido arcaico de proteger o defender, oriundo del parara latino.

The word "vuelacerca" is a combination of the verb "voler" (to fly) and "cerca" (fence).

Voler es volar en francés. En español se dice volar.

"Marimacha" is a combination of the name "Maria" and the word "macho" which is an adjective used to describe manliness. In the word "Marimacha" the "macho" component is feminized with the "a" ending instead of the "o". The word refers to women with same sex orientation

No. Macho puede ser adjetivo, pero no se clasifica de esa manera, una vez que el cambio para a no se produce cuando se trata de diferenciar animales epicenos. Mismo cuando se quiere especificar el sexo de un animal, úsase macho y no se hace la concordancia en femenino, como se esperaría de un adjetivo: dícese tortuga macho y no tortuga macha. Marimacha es una variante más regional del tradicional marimacho, que surgió de la sensación de que ya que se está describiendo a una mujer, tienes que apenderle una desinencia femenina.

marimacha.

1. f. despect. coloq. Cuba, Perú y Ven. marimacho. En Cuba, u. t. c. adj.

www.rae.es

The word "vuelacerca" is a combination of the verb "voler" (to fly) and "cerca" (fence). It is a sports term that translates roughly into English as "home run", a baseball term.

No sé nada de deportes, pero lo que me resulta más lógico es tener el verbo volar (to fly) más el adverbio cerca (close by, o en este caso low), pero puedes tener razón en este aspecto.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby William » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:35 am

No, deriva del verbo parar, en el sentido arcaico de proteger o defender, oriundo del parara latino.


Bueno, tienes razón. The verb parar does make more sense in both paragolpes and parabrisas.

Voler es volar en francés. En español se dice volar.


Ok, excuse my typo. However, the "cerca" component of the word "vuelacerca", which is used as a noun in Mexico, means "fence". "Vuelacerca" refers to a baseball that flew over the fence, in other words un "jonron".

"Marimacha" does appear to be a local usage. The word is used to refer to a female, hence the feminine ending, which has male tendencies, hence the use of the root word "macho".

A couple of other examples that come to mind are the noun+noun combination "ferrocarril" (iron rail) or railroad, and "paraguas", a combination of the verb "parar" (gracias otra vez a BD) and the noun "agua".

Thank you, BD, for your corrections. My original point is undiminished. It is possible to make compound words in a romance language.

Still, I don't believe that Spanish forms compound words of three or more components. At least I am unaware of any.

This link to a page in About.com is a short list of Spanish compound words.

William
William
Junior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:48 pm

Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:51 pm

Thank you, BD, for your corrections. My original point is undiminished. It is possible to make compound words in a romance language.

Yep, it certainly is, but I don't think Romance speakers are as inventive as Germanic (particularly English) in this regard.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby anders » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:46 am

Brazilian dude wrote:
Thank you, BD, for your corrections. My original point is undiminished. It is possible to make compound words in a romance language.

Yep, it certainly is, but I don't think Romance speakers are as inventive as Germanic (particularly English) in this regard.

Brazilian dude

Not having investigated the matter, I still think that English is far less proficient than Scandinavian and German at compounding. Compund word = 'ordsammansättning' in Swedish, but we admittedly normally say 'sammansatta ord'.

La fille aux cheveaux de lin = The Girl With the Flaxen Hair = Flickan med linhåret = northern Swedish just "linhåre'".
Irren ist männlich
anders
Lexiterian
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:46 am
Location: Sweden

Postby Huia Iesou » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:53 am

What about el paraguas, BD? It makes sense to me to say it derives from para + agua.
Huia Iesou
Junior Lexiterian
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:21 pm

Postby Brazilian dude » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:22 pm

Of course it does.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby Brazilian dude » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:38 pm

Now going back to the topic How many words does a language have?, look what I've just found (for Portuguese):


Translation: I remind you that one cannot discuss here which is the "correct" form, since both exist. The fact that one of them is not in the dictionary doesn't mean anything; we have close to 600,000 words, and Houaiss* records only 240,000.

*Our most up-to-date dictionary so far.

600,000 words? Quite a sizable number. I wonder who counted them and how the author of the excerpt, who's a respected grammarian, got this number.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby Bailey » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:58 pm

600,000 words? Quite a sizable number. I wonder who counted them and how the author of the excerpt, who's a respected grammarian, got this number.

Brazilian dude

Must be the same guy who counts the numbers of species that go extinct everyday, I wonder if he does a deathwatch for each species. :?
more doo-doo-doo-doo
mark

Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Make the most of it...
kb








Bailey
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:51 pm

Previous

Return to Res Diversae

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest