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Chaos

Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:05 pm

I have been following for the past weeks the decadence of this forum and its being changed into a chatroom. I'd hate for it to end up like the other one, which I was (and still am) very attached to. I say this because I think the chatting here is becoming absurd. For this purpose there are other places that you guys, whom I adore and find an entertaining bunch, could go to if you cannot resist the urge to make a pun and tell a joke at the slightest thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a little bit of talking and would be the last one to discourage it, but the focus of this forum is being lost and what was the exception is becoming the norm.

Go ahead now. Hate me.

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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:08 pm

Or even better: there could be a section here called puns or jokes or anything to that effect.

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Postby Flaminius » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:13 pm

I regret to say this but I cannot understand many a post these days (I feel like a very premature dotage is taking root...). BD, you are right. Maybe you can bring in some linguistic fun here?
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Postby Bailey » Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:21 pm

Chaos? Hardly chaos, but hey if you want to discuss something arcane or obscure linguistic subjects go ahead, no chaotics will disturb your pristine threads.

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Postby Perry » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:22 pm

The problems with the old agora IMHO, apart from the obvious absence of the Good Doctor, were the spammers and attempted porn posts. We had plenty of fun and puns there; as well as serious postings. I don't think that in either board there is a problem of any serious discourse disrupted by, "Hey lighten up! Did you hear the one about?"... Conversely, why should the lighter threads be castigated as decadent?

Admittedly, I am one of the worst offenders as far as punning goes. But we wouldn't be making puns and telling jokes if we didn't have an extreme love of words. The very fact that the puns "get out of hand" is a good thing; members are obviously using all of their brain cells to get that one step farther.

I built and monitor another BB, dedicated to Taekwondo. The main raison d'etre of the BB is do share martial arts knowledge and to announce events such as tournaments and belt tests. But we also have a fair amount of banter, there; and it's all good. People get to know each other better through the lighter posts.

Don't you remember that one of the least popular posters on the other site was someone (whose name I have mercifully forgotten) whose posts were all very heavy, usually arcane, and generally contained declarations with insufficient facts to back them up. (Other than, "I remember reading something about this when I was in college". He never missed a chance to tell us that he had an ecducation.) Is that where you want to go?

BD, I doubt that that is what you are looking for. "Or do I misconstrue?"
Last edited by Perry on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chaos

Postby frank » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:07 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:I have been following for the past weeks the decadence of this forum and its being changed into a chatroom. I'd hate for it to end up like the other one, which I was (and still am) very attached to. I say this because I think the chatting here is becoming absurd. For this purpose there are other places that you guys, whom I adore and find an entertaining bunch, could go to if you cannot resist the urge to make a pun and tell a joke at the slightest thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a little bit of talking and would be the last one to discourage it, but the focus of this forum is being lost and what was the exception is becoming the norm.
Go ahead now. Hate me.


I think i know what you mean and i find it a pitty too. Not the jokes and the puns (which can be refreshing), but the equilibrium which is getting lost.
To paraphrase Perry, "the main raison d'etre of the BB" is supposed to be language(s). That's the main (and only) reason why i signed up. I don't mind the 'a fair amount of banter', but what's 'fair amount'?
To restore the balance, i wouldn't mind some more people showing their "college education", even if that would make them "impopular". (whatever is meant by "college education", i don't know the American education system).

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Postby skinem » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:31 pm

Please do forgive me if I've either offended anyone or "degraded" the level of discourse here. I sincerely mean that.
I have enjoyed the banter as well as the serious end of discussions here. I've found it refreshing to find people who can and enjoy playing with words.
As to how to determine a balance, I've always thought that the moderators of any board were the ones that did that. If things get out of hand, they usually are the ones to get it back in line.
As for myself, if there is a posting that I either don't like, don't approve, find either too childish, boorish, crude, or just in general not to my liking, I move on. I assumed others did the same. Most times we all have to wade through "garbage" to find treasue.
At the same time, if I offend (and it's never intentional, I assure you) I apologize.
And, I don't hate you, B.D.
If I shared my college education, folks would die of boredom!
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Postby gailr » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:47 pm

Chaos theory (quote has been edited with poetic license):
"...chaos theory describes the behavior of certain nonlinear dynamical systems that under certain conditions exhibit a phenomenon known as chaos. ... the behavior of systems that exhibit chaos appears to be random, even though the system is deterministic in the sense that it is well defined and contains no random parameters. Examples of such systems include the atmosphere, the solar system, plate tectonics, turbulent fluids, economics, and population growth."
Perhaps even population growth on language boards, which sometimes feature strange attractors

String theory (same editing: possible relation to topic thread theory?):
"The basic idea behind all string theories is that the fundamental constituents of reality are strings of extremely small scale ... Strings can split and combine, which would appear as particles emitting and absorbing other particles, presumably giving rise to the known interactions between particles. ... Furthermore, all string theories predict the existence of degrees of freedom ... depending on the specific theory and on the point of view."
Point of view is relative; free expression of different points of view keeps the board alive and on keel.


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who rather appreciates a stimulating mix of fact and fancy, and chose Wiki definitions to be accessible to all.
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Postby Bailey » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:53 pm

Perhaps, we could have both serious discussions and frivolous, those members, in good standing; might elect, in writing ahead of time to allow others of opposite bend (sic) to add if they wish comments and the converse also. For example I might ask that sneakers not (or then why not?) be the subject of frivolity in the subsequent posts but rather that we stick to our very serious discussion of, of... what was I saying again?

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While my Masters is not in Linguistic studies; I love to play with words, If you want to discuss conjugations and declensions, not to mention long-winded etymologies, go ahead and I will try very hard to not participate.

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Postby Perry » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:34 pm

Hey, I'm all for higher education' and for using what has been learned. It may be that only those that frequented the other site way back when will understand the reference. In short, there was a member that woul frequently make assumptions about, and cast aspersions on, those that he deemed less educated. On top of that, he was often guilty of being way off the mark in his scholarly discourses. I only brought him up as an extreme example of a word lover, who was devoid of humor.

My role models for balance between scholarship and humor are members such as:

Tim Ward, who is hysterically funny and a great grammarian.
KatieBr, who always has wonderful anectdotes to recount (usually with very funny self-deprecation) and who is also one of the most prolific contributors of new words of the day.
Gailr, who is so knowledgable about word origins, and is always ready to run with a pun. (And what a great posting in this thread with the Chaos Theory and String Theory!)
Garzo, who is so witty, and has such a broad-based knowledge of all things liguistic.

Apologies to so many other intelligent and urbane members that I didn't mention by name.

At the end of the day, I think that the subjects of the threads will determine the nature of the replies. (I would be inerested in Dr. Beard's viewpoint, BTW.)

BD, don't get your BVDs in a twist.
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Postby sluggo » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:32 pm

BD, Bailey and Perry all make good points. I concur that some measure of silliness has held sway increasingly often, (and as an admitted perpetual perpetrator I would know); however I find that, in my own case at least, a dearth of serious matter to work with simply invites tangents to play with. BD and many others certainly do their part to bring up worthy topics, but sometimes there's just not enough to go around, and thus an idle mind is the devil's workshop.

Both light and heavy reading can be instructive, and it's worth remembering that this board certainly maintains a civil tone, in no small part due to the former's presence. I think more erudition would be welcomed by all -some of us more passive students particularly- so I'd venture to say the quest is not for less oil but more vinegar so to speak.

I'm not enough of a tech type to know, but would it be possible to arrange threads to "subthread" for the purpose of offtopic posts?

BD's point is well taken that threads that build on off-topic tangents do tend to blur the original topic and make for a crowded boardroom. Only our own self-discipline can strike a good balance, which I think is his purpose in bringing it up. So B.D. I think we all recognise some validity in your point, and I for one don't hate you. Not for that, anyway... :wink:
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Re: Chaos

Postby Huny » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:25 pm

frank wrote:
Brazilian dude wrote:I have been following for the past weeks the decadence of this forum and its being changed into a chatroom. I'd hate for it to end up like the other one, which I was (and still am) very attached to. I say this because I think the chatting here is becoming absurd. For this purpose there are other places that you guys, whom I adore and find an entertaining bunch, could go to if you cannot resist the urge to make a pun and tell a joke at the slightest thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against a little bit of talking and would be the last one to discourage it, but the focus of this forum is being lost and what was the exception is becoming the norm.
Go ahead now. Hate me.


I think i know what you mean and i find it a pitty too. Not the jokes and the puns (which can be refreshing), but the equilibrium which is getting lost.
To paraphrase Perry, "the main raison d'etre of the BB" is supposed to be language(s). That's the main (and only) reason why i signed up. I don't mind the 'a fair amount of banter', but what's 'fair amount'?
To restore the balance, i wouldn't mind some more people showing their "college education", even if that would make them "impopular". (whatever is meant by "college education", i don't know the American education system).

Frank


Frank, I was unaware that ones educational (college) status was a prerequisite to become a member on this MB. Had I known that, I would have taken my "play on words" and desire to learn more about my own language along with a little about other languages, to a lower class place that uses and allows vile language, and use nothing but letters -not words- to communicate, and run the risk of being bullied by some idiot. All of which I find very crass. Maybe someone that has no college education, like myself, enjoys reading and participating in the posts here in this forum and find there is alot to learn here (not to mention the fact that this is a clean, fun forum). A person that knows or understands little of their own language will not have the wherewithal to make such "fun puns". So, in toto, it can make a person stretch ones mind to find the words to interject into what could essentially become the mundane. It saddens me to see the prejudice that you are showing here against those not fortunate enough, like myself, to afford a college aducation. But, make no mistake, this does not mean I am stupid. Simple banter between us does not mean we are obtuse either. So, maybe It would behoove me to take my plain, boring uneducated self elsewhere.
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Re: Chaos

Postby sluggo » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:05 pm

Huny wrote:
frank wrote:....To restore the balance, i wouldn't mind some more people showing their "college education", even if that would make them "impopular". (whatever is meant by "college education", i don't know the American education system).

Frank


Frank, I was unaware that ones educational (college) status was a prerequisite to become a member on this MB. Had I known that, I would have taken my "play on words" and desire to learn more about my own language along with a little about other languages, to a lower class place that uses and allows vile language, and use nothing but letters -not words- to communicate, and run the risk of being bullied by some idiot. All of which I find very crass. Maybe someone that has no college education, like myself, enjoys reading and participating in the posts here in this forum and find there is alot to learn here (not to mention the fact that this is a clean, fun forum). A person that knows or understands little of their own language will not have the wherewithal to make such "fun puns". So, in toto, it can make a person stretch ones mind to find the words to interject into what could essentially become the mundane. It saddens me to see the prejudice that you are showing here against those not fortunate enough, like myself, to afford a college aducation. But, make no mistake, this does not mean I am stupid. Simple banter between us does not mean we are obtuse either. So, maybe It would behoove me to take my plain, boring uneducated self elsewhere.


Wait up, Huny. I hate to presume to speak for Frank, but frankly I don't think that's what he meant.

By "showing their 'college education'" I infer that he's asking for a greater number of serious, thoughtful posts to balance our light ones, and at the same time alluding back to Perry's note about some previous parsimonious education snob who 'never missed a chance to tell us he had an education'. Which if I'm correct is pretty much the same point I was making.

I too was never able to afford college so I know we get sensitive about that now and then, but I don't feel Frank was targeting us.

Say, where's your triskell, lass?? {edit: it's back!}
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Re: Chaos

Postby Stargzer » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:09 pm

Huny wrote: . . . So, maybe It would behoove me to take my plain, boring uneducated self elsewhere.


Nah. I seem to recall being excoriated on the other board when I, after urging by another, made similar comments about the tone of said board.

Been there, done that, and now staying out of this bear-trap.

La plus ça change, la plus la même chose.
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Postby Bailey » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:14 pm

well said Huny, I back your entire post. It takes a quick mind to think of witty repartee, It takes big bucks and some stick-toitiveness to acquire a degree no matter how high it's piled; without the quick wit you may as well hang it up. The real balance is between serious/playfulness, not just serious, serious,play, serious; nor should playfulness be relegated to a single spot on the menu of the alpha-agora but spread like strawberry jam thick and plenty to keep us all on-our-toes.

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Gzr, you don't really seem flayed there just scourged and singed a bit. By the way what is OLR?

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