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Thought Shower, Deferred Success, and Misguided Criminals

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Postby gailr » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:30 pm

Would that I could...
-gailr
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Postby William » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:23 am

And finally, in a recent conversation I had with Joe Kennedy on this same subject he screamed at me that his only interest was to “help the poor folks in Boston”. I googled all these good intentions and found a story in the Boston Herald that stated that “entities related to his Citizens Energy Corp. paid him [Joe Kennedy] more than $400,000 in 2003, the last year for which records are available.” Not bad for a non-profit executive willing to lend his name to a $9 million foreign disinformation campaign.


Thanks for posting that Apo.

Joe Kennedy's father, Robert Kennedy, and his uncle, John Kennedy, must be spinning in their graves. Both were ardent anti-Communists. But his grandfather, Joseph the First, must be fairly proud. He made his fortune manipulating the Stock Market in the 1920s, thus contributing to the Stock Market Crash of 1929. One of the results of the Crash was passage of legislation in the U.S. to make such manipulations illegal.

But I woudn't give him too much credit for causing the Great Depression of the 1930s. The causes of that tragedy were much more complex than the greed of a single individual, although the greed of many may have played a key role in the process.

Later the Kennedy patriarch, during his brief tenure as Ambassador from the United States to the Court of St. James, padded his fortune by using Liberty Ships to transport alcoholic beverages from the British Isles back to the U.S. Though not illegal at the time, the use of the Liberty ships in this manner pi**ed off a lot of people and FDR was forced to replace Papa Joe. It's possible, I suppose, that Joseph Kennedy Senior actually paid for the use of the Liberty ships.

He (Papa Joe Kennedy, not necessarily FDR) was never opposed to making a little "honest" money and must be pleased with his grandson's $400,000 coup, paltry though it is. That's assuming, of course, that life continues in some form beyond the grave and that Papa Joe is in a position to appreciate the ingenuity of his posterity.

William
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Postby M. Henri Day » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:39 pm

Apoclima wrote:On the Venezuelan government's sale of heating oil at discount prices to poor people in the Bronx and in Boston:

It is very easy (and fun, I suppose) to give away other people's money and, then, look, (wow, he's so) generous!

But I don't think that evoking feelings of gratitude and indebtedness is any way to make long term friends. Once the dole out stops, the friends are gone.


Well yes. The present US Administration has spent upward of 300 thousand million USD in prosecuting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and by the way, enriching Mr Cheney's friends far beyond a Joe Kennedy's wildest dreams), which, if my calculations are true, far exceeds Mr Chavez's largess in the Bronx. As to whether he has thereby won more true friends there (and elsewhere) by delivering oil at a discount than the US has in Iraq and Afghanistan by making war on those countries is a question which cannot, perhaps, be fully answered at this point, but one thing, however, does seem sure : Mr Chavez is unlikely to have to answer for his actions before a latter-day version of the Nürnberg Tribunal. Unlike the initiation of a war of aggression, selling heating oil to poor people at a discount, is unlikely to be is regarded as
the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.


In any event, Rep. Jose E. Serrano (D-N.Y.), who brokered the oil deal, seems to me to make a valid point :

"To those who say this is to score political points," he told a shivering crowd when the first oil arrived, "I invite any American corporation that wants to score points with my community to start this afternoon."


Henri
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Postby Stargzer » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:14 pm

William wrote: . . . But his grandfather, Joseph the First, must be fairly proud. He made his fortune manipulating the Stock Market in the 1920s, thus contributing to the Stock Market Crash of 1929. One of the results of the Crash was passage of legislation in the U.S. to make such manipulations illegal.


I'm not so sure about his being the cause of the Crash, but on the principle of "It takes a thief to catch a thief," FDR appointed him the first chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commision (SEC):

Even Joseph's critics acknowledge the reforming work he performed as SEC Chairman. His knowledge of the financial markets equipped him to identify areas requiring the attention of regulators. One of the crucial reforms was the requirement for companies to regularly lodge financial statements with the SEC which broke what some saw as an information monopoly maintained by the Morgan banking family. After serving in this post for several years, he resigned in 1935. President Roosevelt then asked him to chair the Maritime Commission.




. . .

Later the Kennedy patriarch, during his brief tenure as Ambassador from the United States to the Court of St. James, padded his fortune by using Liberty Ships to transport alcoholic beverages from the British Isles back to the U.S. Though not illegal at the time, the use of the Liberty ships in this manner pi**ed off a lot of people and FDR was forced to replace Papa Joe. It's possible, I suppose, that Joseph Kennedy Senior actually paid for the use of the Liberty ships.

. . .

William


Actually, Kennedy clashed with FDR and Churchill on Chamberlain's policy of appeasement of Hitler. Kennedy was an Isolationist who wanted to stay out of any European war.

Appeasement

In 1938, he was appointed as the United States Ambassador to the Court of St. James's (United Kingdom). Kennedy, of Irish descent, hugely enjoyed his leadership position in London society, which stood in stark contrast to his outsider status in Boston. He rejected the warnings by Winston Churchill that Nazi Germany posed a looming threat, and supported Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement in order to stave off a second world war that would be more horrible than the first. He resigned from office in 1940 after being recalled as he publicly disagreed with Roosevelt's policy of indecision, prior to the Attack on Pearl Harbor, on involving the USA in the Second World War. Regardless, Kennedy was active in rallying Irish Democrats to Roosevelt's reelection.
Regards//Larry

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Postby gailr » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:12 pm

Let's take the next off-ramp back to holiday greetings....

I'm posting a link I hope you all will enjoy. I'd like to be the first to wish everyone a fiery Night of the Radishes!

-gailr

who has not yet sent out her happy chrisma-hanu-kwanza-jule-kah cards and is contemplating sending "Night of the Radishes" cards in their place, if only Hallmark will come through...
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Postby Stargzer » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:37 am

gailr wrote:Let's take the next off-ramp back to holiday greetings....
. . .
-gailr

. . .


In a more Scrooge-like mood I've been know to say "May you have the holidays you so rightly deserve." It's a one-size-fits-all greeting for friend and foe alike. :wink:

Then there was the time the phone rang at about 3:00 am on Christmas morning:

Me: "Hello? . . . Hello?"

Lost-sounding unknown female voice on the phone: "I, I, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas."

Me: "Well, Merry F***ing Christmas!" as I slam the phone down.


I still wonder if she realized she dialed the wrong number, or if I sent someone off the deep end that night. Moral of the story: "Let sleeping Stagzers lie!"
Regards//Larry

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Postby Apoclima » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:44 am

Nice find, gailr!

In other words, no matter what you say or don't say, someone will find reason to take offense. What we need is not sensitivity training, but some desensitivity training, so that people quit taking offense when none is meant.


And, Larry, I hate the phone anyway. I don't have one in my bedroom, for just that reason.

Apo
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Postby M. Henri Day » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:18 pm

Larry, you are a grouch ! OK, OK, I'll wait till four o' clock and then ring you....

Henri
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Postby William » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:55 pm

Kennedy was an Isolationist who wanted to stay out of any European war.


And as an Irishman he may have had some animosity towards the English, which makes one wonder why FDR appointed him in the first place. None-the-less, his use of Liberty ships for his own gain played a part in his dismissal as Ambassador.

PBS "The American Experience" series ran an episode entitled "The Kennedys" several years ago. If anyone is interested, it can be had for $19.95 from their website. I believe that it was in this episode that Joseph Kennedy Senior was quoted as saying something like "we've got to make as much money as we can before it becomes illegal" (regarding stock market manipulations.

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Postby Stargzer » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:31 pm

M. Henri Day wrote:Larry, you are a grouch ! OK, OK, I'll wait till four o' clock and then ring you....

Henri


If caller ID works internationally, expect a return call at an inoppourtune time . . . :twisted:
Regards//Larry

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Postby Stargzer » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:44 am

tcward wrote:Hmm... That would more likely be a thought rinsing, wouldn't it? ;)

-Tim
. . .


La plus ça change, la plus la même chose!

A phrase in George Will's column the other day on the death of Eugene McCarthy caught my eye and reminded me of Tim's post:

McCarthy's acerbic wit sometimes slid into unpleasantness, as when, after Gov. George Romney, the Michigan Republican, said that briefers in Vietnam had "brainwashed" him, McCarthy said that surely a light rinse would have sufficed. McCarthy's wit revealed an aptitude for condescension, an aptitude that charmed intellectuals but not Americans condescended to.
Regards//Larry

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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Postby Andrew Dalby » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:14 pm

Stargzer wrote:
La plus ça change, la plus la même chose!



You've changed it a bit, but, yes, it's still the same thing. I think it's: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!
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Postby M. Henri Day » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:48 pm

I think, Andrew, that that might just possibly have been Tim's point....

Henri
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