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A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby tcward » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:43 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:
Luna, tu
Tu rischiari il cielo e la sua immensità
E ci mostri solo la metà che vuoi
Come poi facciamo quasi sempre noi

By Alessandro Safina

Brazilian dude


Luna, thou...

Thou revealest the Heavens and their immensity
And only half dost thou show,
Just as, then, we nearly always do.


-Tim
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Postby Flaminius » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:06 pm

I don't know how to use Systran or how many languages they can translate. While I try to find out what it can do, could I suggest a translation portal written in Japanese-- innocently assuming that those Agorists conversant in this language, excepting me, should ever need mechanical help like this?

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Postby Stargzer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:48 pm

Just go to http://www.systranet.com/systran/net . When I first went there a year of more ago, you had so many free translations before you had to register, but registration is free. I can't see the difference, unless they just want to track usage better.

Pulled from the source code for their web-based translation page (the one you access at the above link):


Translation Options:

Arabic to English
Dutch to English
Dutch to French
English to Arabic
English to Dutch
English to French
English to German
English to Greek
English to Italian
English to Japanese
English to Korean
English to Portuguese
English to Russian
English to Simplified Chinese
English to Spanish
English to Swedish
English to Traditional Chinese
French to Dutch
French to English
French to German
French to Greek
French to Italian
French to Portuguese
French to Spanish
German to English
German to French
Greek to English
Greek to French
Italian to English
Italian to French
Japanese to English
Korean to English
Portuguese to English
Portuguese to French
Russian to English
Simplified Chinese to English
Spanish to English
Spanish to French
Swedish to English
Traditional Chinese to English


Specialty Dictionaries:

Medicine
Computers/Data Processing
Economics/Business
Life Sciences
Sample Dictionary
Automotive
General
Legal
Mechanical Engineering



I used the Russian to English to get an idea of what kind of spam slipped through the filters at work.

From the top of the form:

You can use the form below to translate a web page, a file on your computer, or text copied and pasted into the text area below. You may also select one or several custom dictionaries that you have created to be used for the translation.

Please note that our free service is limited to 4Kb for .txt, 32Kb for .html, and 64Kb for .rtf data.


So, you can paste text, browse your system for a file name, or enter an URL to go to and translate, within the exceptions given.

Not a bad tool for the Americans amongst us. :lol:
Regards//Larry

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:20 pm

I distrust electronic translators, just take a look at the gems some of you have posted.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
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Postby Stargzer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:28 pm

Yes, well, you know the old joke, don't you?

What do you call a person who speaks three languages?
Trilingual.

And a person who speaks two languages?
Bilingual.

And a person who speaks only one language?
An American!


Ici on parle un tres, tres, tres tres peu de français.

Oops.

Ici on parle un très, très, très très peu de français.
Last edited by Stargzer on Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards//Larry

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:34 pm

At least it's unaccented. :wink:

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Postby Stargzer » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:02 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:At least it's unaccented. :wink:

Brazilian dude


I rest my case!

Oops.

Ici on parle un très, très, très, très peu de français.


Et très, très, très très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très, très mauvais.
Regards//Larry

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:05 am

Flaminius wrote:... While I try to find out what it can do, could I suggest a translation portal written in Japanese-- innocently assuming that those Agorists conversant in this language, excepting me, should ever need mechanical help like this?


Assuming, of course, your innocence in «innocently assuming», Flam, I want to thank you for posting that link to what Larry likes to refer to as «chicken scratches». I never fail to be amazed by the resources available on the Net - fantastic in the literal sense !...

Larry, when I clicked on the link you provided, I got the impression that Systran is a commercial service which offers a free trail to those who register. Is this the case or have I, as usual, misunderstood everything ?...

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Flaminius » Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:53 am

My words, with unwonted and mocked humility, got all convoluted. Thank you for pointing that out, Henri.
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Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:57 pm

Ever since 2 November, when I requested what I called a «beauty-sleep cheque» (alas, some of us need such more than others !), I've been trying to think of a way to address the important issues adumbrated by Larry, Katy, and not least, Flam, without writing at such length that my posting would be rejected by our Agora's software. I must confess that despite much cogitation these last two weeks, I haven't been able to find a way to deal briefly with matters not amenable to (visual versions of) soundbites. So while I haven't forgotten my promise, I have decided instead try to deal with the issues one at a time, in several posts, in the order in which they happen to come to mind or in which I they are brought to my attention by my fellow Agorists. I hope it won't be felt that by taking this path, I'm ratting out....

Let me say firstly, Katy and Larry, that I do think I understand the shock that the events of 11 September 2001 caused to US residents. I don't think it was so much the scale of the events - just under 3000 killed and the destruction of two great landmarks in New York City that caused the shock - destruction on a much larger scale has happened elsewhere - but the fact that 1) the strikes seemed to come out of the blue, and 2) and most importantly, that it happened here ; i e, in the continental US, which hadn't been subject to attack since the British burned Washington DC in 1812 (and then, at least, people in the US knew they were at war). I don't want here to discuss whether, for example, the feeling that the attacks came from nowhere with no forewarning was, in fact, justified ; it suffices to note that despite military activities on the part of the US 'round the globe, the vast majority of the people of the United States had no idea whatever that these actions, to the degree that they were even aware of them, could influence their own safety and security, protected as they were (or so it seemed) by two great oceans and military power greater than that of the rest of the globe combined. Were I to attempt to draw a parallel, I could say that the feelings of the citizens of Chile who experienced an attack by their own armed forces on the legitimate, democratically-elected government of Salvador Allende 28 years earlier to the day must have been similar to those felt by residents of the US, but of course, rumours of an impending golpa had been flying for some time, so even if the Chilean armed forces had, unlike many of their Latin American counterparts, historically never revolted against the state, the shock was more that of a recurrent nightmare come true, than the sudden realisation of one in reality that had never been dreamt. My own parallel experience is on a much smaller scale - the events of 28 February 1986, i e, the murder of the Swedish statsminister Olof Palme as he and his wife were walking home after a visit to the cinema. How could that happen here, we (or most of us, including myself) thought, in our peaceful little land ; politics by assassination was something that was done in other countries, in Europe and not least, in the United States. And like your 11 September 2001, this event changed our lives and our political system radically as well : our little corner of the world no longer seemed to smile upon us, safe and friendly ; no Swedish prime minister has since walked home from the flicks unaccompanied by secret service personnel (or, as Per-Albin Hansson used to do forty years earlier, take the tram home from work every day) ; and, indeed, his (as yet, always «his», never «her») role has been changing, becoming ever more and more remote and president-like. So even if the scale of the disaster (3000 dead vs 1) is vastly different, I am not entirely without experience in which to ground the empathy I feel....

But when Larry says that «I am not worried about an Imperial Presidency», our views part. To my mind, the struggle between Republic and Empire in the US has continued ever since those fateful days in Philadelphia in 1787 when the US Constitution was framed. (If I'm not entirely mistaken, Larry, you, like me, are a great fan of Mark Twain, one of the most prominent anti-imperialists in the US at the turn of the last century and a member of the Anti-Imperialist League.) Just as Lincoln at an earlier junction had realised that «this Nation cannot exist half-slave and half-free», neither can liberty and freedom long exist at home in an Empire, which by its very nature is destructive of the liberties and freedoms of its subjects abroad. That which is brought to foreign lands at the point of a bayonet or with a whiff of white phosphorus is not Democracy but Tyranny, and Tyranny will not be satisfied merely with what it gains abroad, as the cost of such gains (the war on Iraq has hitherto cost the US taxpayer more than 200000 millions of dollars and thousands of killed and wounded) will inevitably lead to discontent at home, which must be suppressed if these gains are to be maintained....

Let me close here by providing a link to an essay, entitled
Confessions of a Repentant Republican, by a US colleague, Dr William Frey, M. D. His background is certainly very different from my own, but I feel the anguish with which he realises that much of what he has believed about the nature of US power has been false. People like myself can perhaps be dismissed as foreigners and radicals who don't have a clue as to what is really going on, but I don't think the same things can be said about Dr Frey, as little as they can be said about Representative John Murtha....

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Stargzer » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:07 pm

M. Henri Day wrote: . . . what Larry likes to refer to as «chicken scratches».


That was meant to be humorous.

Larry, when I clicked on the link you provided, I got the impression that Systran is a commercial service which offers a free trail to those who register. Is this the case or have I, as usual, misunderstood everything ?...

Henri


Yes, they are a commercial site, but my Free Trial has gone on for quite some time. I first ran across that site from a link on the AlphaDictionary's predecessor.

I find it of some use to the linguistically challenged amongst us.
Regards//Larry

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
-- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee
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Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:08 pm

Humour in chickens frighten me, Larry ; when they laugh, I'm always afraid they've caught the flu....

Thanks in any event for tipping me off to Systran ! Given the number of languages that exist, I suggest that we all (with the possible exception of BD) sometimes find ourselves «linguistically challenged»....

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby gailr » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:29 pm

M. Henri Day wrote:Humour in chickens frighten me, Larry ; when they laugh, I'm always afraid they've caught the flu....

Henri


My coworkers and I suspect that them chickens hate our freedom...

-gailr
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Postby M. Henri Day » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:31 am

Let us hope that at least the ones that get vaccinated in China come to their senses and abjure their virus fundamentalism (which contains more than just a dollop of raw, unmitigated Darwinism) !...

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:28 pm

I suggest that we all (with the possible exception of BD) sometimes find ourselves «linguistically challenged»....


Oh no, I just think books are more trustworthy and learning yourself pays off.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
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