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Purifying Persian

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Purifying Persian

Postby Stargzer » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:32 pm

AP News: Iranian Leader Bans Usage of Foreign Words

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200607 ... M6PG0.html

Jul 29, 9:31 AM (ET)


(AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gestures as he talks at a news conference in Dushanbe,...

[Note: For the record, he had a clenched fist, which isn't necessarily a rude gesture . . . :wink: ]


TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has ordered government and cultural bodies to use modified Persian words to replace foreign words that have crept into the language, such as "pizzas" which will now be known as "elastic loaves," state media reported Saturday.

The presidential decree, issued earlier this week, orders all governmental agencies, newspapers and publications to use words deemed more appropriate by the official language watchdog, the Farhangestan Zaban e Farsi, or Persian Academy, the Irna official news agency reported.


I'm sure glad we don't have to call them "flat, round baked Italian dough with tomato sauce and cheese" in English! :) That takes longer to say than it does to eat!

With apologies to the late Dean Martin:

Quand la lune frappe votre oeil comme un grand pâté en croûte de pizza qui est amore!
Regards//Larry

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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:01 pm

Let me just say I don't know squat about Farsi.

But anyway, I think it laudable that the Academy has launched such a strategy, especially if the foreign words targeted at hurt the language's phonology. Nevertheless, these "new" words can be nothing more than a suggestion. If things are being imposed, then I think they're in deep trouble.

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Postby Palewriter » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:55 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:Let me just say I don't know squat about Farsi.

But anyway, I think it laudable that the Academy has launched such a strategy, especially if the foreign words targeted at hurt the language's phonology. Nevertheless, these "new" words can be nothing more than a suggestion. If things are being imposed, then I think they're in deep trouble.

Brazilian dude


Imagine if the British had an Academy with the goal of erasing all foreign words that have snuck into the English language. Here's a useful one (chosen at random, of course): xenophobia.


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Postby Stargzer » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:56 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:
. . . If things are being imposed, then I think they're in deep trouble.

Brazilian dude


From what little I know of present-day Iran, everything there is an imposition . . . :wink:
Regards//Larry

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Postby Bailey » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:05 pm

Although no one would dare acuse Iran of Xenophobia, or anything else. Not if you want to stay aive.

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Re: Purifying Persian

Postby Bailey » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:08 pm

Stargzer wrote: Pizza.....I'm sure glad we don't have to call them "flat, round baked Italian dough with tomato sauce and cheese" in English! :) That takes longer to say than it does to eat!

With apologies to the late Dean Martin:

Quand la lune frappe votre oeil comme un grand pâté en croûte de pizza qui est amore!

But Isn't France booting all foreign words also?

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Re: Purifying Persian

Postby Palewriter » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:15 pm

Bailey wrote:
Stargzer wrote: Pizza.....I'm sure glad we don't have to call them "flat, round baked Italian dough with tomato sauce and cheese" in English! :) That takes longer to say than it does to eat!

With apologies to the late Dean Martin:

Quand la lune frappe votre oeil comme un grand pâté en croûte de pizza qui est amore!

But Isn't France booting all foreign words also?

mark


Oui, c'est vrai.

-- PW
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!!! What a ride!"
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:15 pm

Imagine if the British had an Academy with the goal of erasing all foreign words that have snuck into the English language. Here's a useful one (chosen at random, of course): xenophobia.

No, I don't think it's a matter of xenophobia. There are certain languages (most?) that don't have certain consonant clusters or are in any other way impeded by phonetic "impositions". If we Portuguese speakers were to take the word brat (and why would we?), we'd have a serious problem, since no Portuguese word ends in t (most words end in a vowel, as I have already said). We'd either:

1- have to take it the way it is spelled in Portuguese and individuals would pronounce it differently based on how much they know/care to show off about English.

2- have to adapt it to Portuguese spelling, maybe by adding an -e at the end or changing the a to e, then we'd have something like brate or brete.

3- find an equivalent in Portuguese (and there are countless) for this word and use it instead.

Of course languages differ in dealing with foreign words. Portuguese and Spanish, for example, are much more prone to resorting to number 3 (or if it's not possible, number 2), whereas Italian seems to follow number 1 (which has created a lot of debate, as seen here www.achyra.org/cruscate - in Italiano!)

Also regarding loanwords from English, I think there are two factors that make adaptations (in most languages) difficult:

1 - languages having a distinction in gender have to think of ways to classify this new word into masculine or feminine (or neuter for those that have this gender). Oftentimes this is the result of mental associations - since OED is das Wörterbuch in German, we say das OED and not der OED or die OED, for example.

2 - pronunciation doesn't equal spelling and confusion

There are examples of foreign words that have stuck with their native orthography in Portuguese (pizza* is a good example) but many more have gone the way of sanduíche.

*Someone has suggested píteça, but it never stuck.

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Postby Bailey » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:21 pm

[quote=brazillian dude] No, I don't think it's a matter of xenophobia. There are certain languages (most?) that don't have certain consonant clusters or are in any other way impeded by phonetic "impositions". If we Portuguese speakers were to take the word brat (and why would we?), we'd have a serious problem, since no Portuguese word ends in t (most words end in a vowel, as I have already said).[/quote]
I'm so glad that english had no such compunctions, it makes it a richer experience just speaking it, and trying your hardest to keep up-to-date on the new words we have daily.
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:36 pm

English normally takes foreign words and pronounces them in a way that not rarely doesn't reflect the original pronunciation. So it would be closer to number 1, as described above.

Besides, I think the era in which English sucked up foreign words is pretty much over. English is exporting many more words than importing them, for obvious reasons.

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Postby Palewriter » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:38 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:English normally takes foreign words and pronounces them in a way that not rarely doesn't reflect the original pronunciation. So it would be closer to number 1, as described above.

Besides, I think the era in which English sucked up foreign words is pretty much over. English is exporting many more words than importing them, for obvious reasons.

Brazilian dude


In a hundred years or so, we'll all be talking Chinese.

Chop chop.

-- PW
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Postby Bailey » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:42 pm

English normally takes foreign words and pronounces them in a way that not rarely doesn't reflect the original pronunciation.


huh? oh ok, I took out a few double negatives I think I've 'got' what you were trying to say. Sometrmes I get to typing so fast my fingers outstrip my brain and I come up with some whoppers too. So change the pronounciation of brat and there ya are, bob's yer uncle!

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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:47 pm

Litotes.

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Postby Bailey » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:02 pm


not unattractive

is a good example of litotes

not rarely doesn't

in English is a triple negative.

mark
Last edited by Bailey on Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Stargzer » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:03 pm

Portuguese would also have to figure out which brat they're talking about; the braht, the sausage (bratwurst) often grilled at cookouts and tailgate parties, or the brăt, one of the worst young two-legged monsters one would often like to toss on the barbecue . . .
Regards//Larry

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