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Purifying Persian

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby frank » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:52 am

Hi,

The Iranian pizza/elastic snack (pitza/kesh loghmeh) story kept me buzy for a while.
What bothered me was
- the translation of kesh loghmeh, and especially loghmeh. This word doesn't really mean loaf, but something as snack, morsel, mouthful, and is used in a few other names for dishes and sweets (gaz loghmeh, loghmeh kabab, ...);
- the connection made with Ahmadinejad;
- the fact that i couldn't find this message on the IRNA website (maybe this should read "the fact that i didn't search well enough"?);
- the very vague idea that i remember having been told about pizza/elastic snack 3 years ago, when i was in a pizzeria in Tehran.

Neither yahoo nor google are very good / keen (?) at finding search results in Persian, but at last i managed to find a referrence:
have you heard the words:
"kesh loghmeh" be jaye Pizza!!!!
"charkh bAl" be jaye helikopter!!!!
"namA bar" be jaye fax!!!
va lots of these funny words!!!!!

The full message can be read here, and when you're there, please have a look at the date: 02-15-2001, 06:16 PM, and that day (and hour), Ahmadinejad wasn't even mayor of Tehran.

I know that all this is nitpicking over a few details, and i know that kesh loghmeh has been proposed by language purifiers in the Islamic Republic of Iran, and i know that Ahmadinijad is a national, regional, international danger,
but i also know that i disgust this kind of half baked lies which are taken over by dozens of news agencies worldwide who apparantly don't check the data.
Makes me think of the idiocies that got published about Russian in the Cold War ("Russian doesn't have a word for peace").
And maybe i'm dramatizing, but if they even can't check this kind of silliness, what about the more serious news?

F
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Postby Bailey » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:19 pm

Gee F, just shoot the messanger...

mark stubborn-streak-less-tolerant-I-see Bailey

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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:57 pm

Makes me think of the idiocies that got published about Russian in the Cold War ("Russian doesn't have a word for peace").

And do they have a word for peace (мир)! It also means world. Talk about a peaceful world!

Brazilian dude
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Postby skinem » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:31 pm

Frank, thanks for your efforts in tracking that down and finding that in effect it is old news, and recycled incorrectly at that.
As you, I detest media half-truths and internet rumors. It shouldn't surprise me...there hasn't been a media report (be it newspaper, tv, radio) that I've had first hand knowledge of that had it all correct. That's one reason I really try to get my news from a wide variety of sources--it also helps mitigate any biases I may pick up.
I'm a big believer in snopes and truth or fiction sites!
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Re: Purifying Persian

Postby sluggo » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:35 pm

Palewriter wrote:
Bailey wrote:But Isn't France booting all foreign words also?

mark


Oui, c'est vrai.

-- PW


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Postby anders » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:38 pm

frank wrote:Makes me think of the idiocies that got published about Russian in the Cold War ("Russian doesn't have a word for peace").


A Soviet citizen ridiculed a Swiss guy:
How come you have a Naval Department?
Reply:
Well, you have a Department of Justice.
Irren ist männlich
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Postby frank » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:38 pm

I'm not sure whether this is worth the effort and the bandwidth, but it's holidays over here, after 3 weeks of maddening heat, we are getting maddening showers of rain.
Enough time to sort it out Smile. Anyway, if it turns out not to be a myth, then you guys will be the first to know.
As if anybody cares...



AFP (Press Agency of Frans) versus APon purifying Persian.
Spot the seven differences.

Comments here ('One rubber pizza one, please' and 'One rubber pizza one please -- the next slice').
Last edited by frank on Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Flaminius » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:47 pm

anders wrote:
frank wrote:[...]and the informal way of thanking includes 'mersi'.[...]

"No, we absolutely don't say 'mersi', we say 'tashakkor'".
"Oh, I'm sorry. Have a cigarette?"
"Mersi."


And tashakkor reeks so Arabic.
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Postby frank » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:13 am

Flaminius wrote:And tashakkor reeks so Arabic.


My Persian dictionary ineeds points out that 'tashakor' is of Arabic origin. I could find Arabic شکر.
'Thank' you in Arabic is 'shokran'.

F
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Postby Perry » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:11 pm

I have always heard it pronounced shookran, with the accent on the first sylable.
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Postby frank » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:05 pm

I'm not sure whether this is worth the effort and the bandwidth, but it's holidays over here, after 3 weeks of maddening heat, we are getting maddening showers of rain.
Enough time to sort it out Smile. Anyway, if it turns out not to be a myth, then you guys will be the first to know.
As if anybody cares...



AFP (Press Agency of Frans) versus APon purifying Persian.
Spot the seven differences.

Comments here ('One rubber pizza one, please' and 'One rubber pizza one please -- the next slice').

Frank
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Postby Stargzer » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:34 pm

frank wrote:
. . .
As if anybody cares...



We care, Frank. I just find all these countries that try to "purify" their language, especially the "Tongue Troopers" of Québec, a wee bit too much on the paranoid side.

As far as I'm concerned, L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth was not the greatest of SciFi novels, but I do see a similarity between the language Psyclo, and English. English had it's own start, but like Psychlo, it picked up bits and pieces of every languange its speakers interacted with, either as conquered or conqueror.

frank wrote:
AFP (Press Agency of Frans) versus APon purifying Persian.
Spot the seven differences.

Comments here ('One rubber pizza one, please' and 'One rubber pizza one please -- the next slice').


Thanks for the links. I was half tempted to leave a reply to SlickWillie's (?) comment about new words for pepperoni, bacon, and ham as pizza toppings. Somehow, I don't think any of those ingredients are halal. . . :wink:


But Frank, if that's YOUR picture, well, I think the land of Chimay and Lambic has not been kind to you at the tender age of 37 . . . :wink:

As for the veracity of the AP, I can only quote Moe Howard, as the Three Stooges question a suspect:

We want to know who killed Cock Robin and left his body in the alley wrapped in newspapers. Now I know you can't believe everything you see in the newspapers these days, but it's obvious he was dead!


This is not a new problem. :(
Regards//Larry

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Postby frank » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:38 am

We care, Frank. I just find all these countries that try to "purify" their language, especially the "Tongue Troopers" of Québec, a wee bit too much on the paranoid side.

Oh, I hope it won't be perceived as a major contradiction to what I wrote before, but I completely agree with you on the issue of language purification and the ideology behind it!

[...]new words for pepperoni, bacon, and ham as pizza toppings. Somehow, I don't think any of those ingredients are halal. . . Somehow, I don't think any of those ingredients are halal. . . Wink

LOL, I wouldn't recommend to start a pizzeria in Tehran and offer ham and bacon. On the black market, one could make a fortune with it, though.

But Frank, if that's YOUR picture, well, I think the land of Chimay and Lambic has not been kind to you at the tender age of 37 . . . :-)

Ah, maybe it's because I never drink Lambic...:-)

Frank
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Postby Bailey » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:03 pm

frank wrote:Ah, maybe it's because I never drink Lambic...:-)

Frank

not one Iota!

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kb








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Postby skinem » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:38 pm

...not jot or tittle!
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