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Purifying Persian

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby malachai » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:37 pm

anders wrote:
frank wrote:I'll try not to forget to ask her tomorrow about the pizza [...] A few months ago, Danish pastry and buttercookies, immensely popular in Tehran, got a new name, after the Danish cartoon situation. [...]


Pizze: "elastic loaves"
Danishes: "roses of Mohammad" (gul-e-muhammadi)

Those and more, including a link to a thorough discussion on Persian/Farsi here.


specifically:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/language ... 03398.html

Since I live in Canada I can sort of understand the motivations of people who want to preserve their culture by eliminating foreign words... but does it ever really work?
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Postby sluggo » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:19 am

malachai wrote:Since I live in Canada I can sort of understand the motivations of people who want to preserve their culture by eliminating foreign words... but does it ever really work?


Just wondering -what word would be foreign in Canadian?

Just a bad rhetorical joke... :roll:
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Postby sharonha » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:35 pm

Don't be silly. Obviously, English continues to export words by the boatload, but look around and see how many people are sitting on the lanai drinking a mocha and doing a sudoku puzzle.

Brazilian dude wrote:
Besides, I think the era in which English sucked up foreign words is pretty much over. English is exporting many more words than importing them, for obvious reasons.

Brazilian dude
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Postby Stargzer » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:58 pm

sluggo wrote:
malachai wrote:Since I live in Canada I can sort of understand the motivations of people who want to preserve their culture by eliminating foreign words... but does it ever really work?


Just wondering -what word would be foreign in Canadian?

Just a bad rhetorical joke... :roll:


I think he's referring to the Tongue Troopers in that Province to the east of Ontario . . .
Regards//Larry

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Postby sluggo » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:57 am

Stargzer wrote:
sluggo wrote:
malachai wrote:Since I live in Canada I can sort of understand the motivations of people who want to preserve their culture by eliminating foreign words... but does it ever really work?


Just wondering -what word would be foreign in Canadian?

Just a bad rhetorical joke... :roll:


I think he's referring to the Tongue Troopers in that Province to the east of Ontario . . .


Oh yeah, je me souviens. :oops:

How's that working out in Iceland :?:
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Postby Ferrus » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:16 pm

Surely the irony of a fundementalist Muslim protecting the 'purity' of Persian is that it doesn't matter! To him the only language God speaks is Arabic.
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Postby frank » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:23 pm

Ferrus wrote:Surely the irony of a fundementalist Muslim protecting the 'purity' of Persian is that it doesn't matter! To him the only language God speaks is Arabic.

Nope, to him, (what you generically seem to call the 'fundamentalist muslim'), the only language in which the Qoran can be read and fully understood is Arabic. I hope your sense of irony leaves you some room to find out the difference between this and your assertion.

Khoda hafez.

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Postby Ferrus » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:56 pm

I fail to see what the President of Iran is but a fundamentalist (Sunni) Muslim - knowing that by fundamentalist I mean a follower of a creed who agrees with putative conservative fundamentals. And that is what he is -certainly I would avoid such terms of 'extremist' or other doltish adjectives.
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Postby Stargzer » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:24 am

Ferrus wrote:I fail to see what the President of Iran is but a fundamentalist (Sunni) Muslim - ...


I was under the impression that most Iranians are Shi'a, as are most of the Arabs in Iraq, especially in the South. The Sunnis are the minority in Iraq but controlled everything under Saddam's regime, and therein lies just one of the reasons for the continued violence there.

... knowing that by fundamentalist I mean a follower of a creed who agrees with putative conservative fundamentals. And that is what he is -certainly I would avoid such terms of 'extremist' or other doltish adjectives.


Some of the former American hostages who say they recognize him from their 444-day "stay" in Iran probably have different terms for him, most of which are not appropriate for this forum. I, fortunately, was not one of his "guests," but I have a long and unforgiving memory for some things. One of my failings, I suppose. It's not always easy to turn the other cheek.

There's all kinds of fundamentalists. Back during the Reagan era, the story (joke) circulated that someone asked Reagan what he would do if radical fundamentalists took over the oil fields. He replied that he thought he was on good terms with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.
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purifying

Postby Bailey » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:53 am

fun·da·men·tal·ism (fnd-mntl-zm)
n.
1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
2.
a. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
b. Adherence to the theology of this movement.



funda·mental·ist adj. & n.
funda·mental·istic adj.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fundamentalist


I don't understand why fundamentalist is Always an indictment, Let's look at this, our Society has lots of problems and is a complex arena where a slight misstep can result in terrible consequence. In order to make sense and keep order several types of "believers" have adopted a creed to keep their followers safer and more on track with their beliefs. In doing this they perceive others with 'similar' beliefs to have a watered down, muddied view of the Belief. Of course they see others are a threat. If my belief says to keep pure and a more liberal one sees a way that they can engage in activities my group abhores, the fundamentalist won't want that liberal around him or his children. This is seen as intolerant, but if a diseased person comes in contact with a 'clean' one, guess which one will get changed? I know the liberal one doesn't see it bad thsat they spread 'their disease' but the fundamentalist is enraged.
[disclaimer]Ok I'm not saying Liberal views are really a disease, that was a way to explain it in very simple terms.[/disclaimer]

It is ok [accepted; even the courts and public opinion usually follows the Liberal way] in our society to be Liberal but not to be fundamentalist, so the fundamentalist swims upstream in a polluted [to him] sea. They see Liberals as extremists with perks. If they get angry, that is why. I'm not trying to spark an argument just trying to see someone else's views.

mark just-seeing-this-differently Bailey

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kb








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Postby Ferrus » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:49 pm

A Muslim politics teacher of mine once argued that Western society is full of 'Liberal fundamentalists'. Still it isn't a very descriptive term.

As for the Sunni/Shia issue, you're right, 'my bad' as you say. Regardless, they still regard Arabic as the perfect language however. Tajik, a form of Persian (along with Dali and Farsi) is probably the most 'pure' variety. Farsi has had a great many years in the Muslim cultural sphere and so has borrowed from Arabic to the same extent that English had borrowed from French in the last 1000 years.

One of the great tragedies of history is that the old Persian history was destroyed by the Arabs in the 7th century, a history with documents that would have been comparable to Ancient Greece and Rome.
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Postby Ferrus » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:19 pm

The Iranian government cares little about foreign words per se, after all the Islamic theocracy has encouraged the use of Arabic loan words and the like in a way the more nationalistic government before them did not.

It is the fact that western words are being used that amounts to the problem.
"Words are things, and a small drop of ink, falling like dew upon a thought, produces that which makes thousands, perhaps millions, think."
Lord Byron
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