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full of p-i-s-s and vinegar

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full of p-i-s-s and vinegar

Postby Bailey » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:12 pm

Meaning

Rowdy, boisterous, full of youthful energy.

Origin

The earliest citation we've found is from 1938 in John Steinbeck's, The Grapes of Wrath:

Grampa walked up and slapped Tom on the chest, and his eyes grinned with affection and pride. "How are ya, Tommy?"
"O.K.," said Tom. "How ya keepin' yaself?"
"Full a anger an' vinegar," said Grampa.

There are other similar phrases that came long before that which may be the source though. In 1922 Joyce has this in Ulysses - "All wind and anger like a tanyard cat."

As far back as 1602, in Return from Parnassas - "They are pestilent fellowes, they speake nothing but bodkins, and pisse vinegar."

Those earlier citations appear to indicate a more negative meaning to the phrase. 'Wind and anger', or as it is more often given 'anger and wind' is usually taken to mean empty talk, full of bombast. Vinegar is associated with sourness and acidity in many other citations.

Vinegar has been in the language as the name of the familiar liquid since the 12th century. During the 1920s vinegar was used to mean vitality and energy. That's the meaning in 'anger and vinegar'. At that time many phrases indicating a general perkiness and vitality entered the language, often for no other reason than linguistic exuberance. It's most likely that the phrase originated around then, possibly as an adaptation of the existing 'vig and vigour', which means much the same. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/145600.html

I wanted to know more about this phrase anyone know something?

markfull-of-it Bailey
Last edited by Bailey on Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Perry » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:18 pm

I've always heard it "full of anger and vinegar".

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Postby skinem » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:12 am

Frankly, I've always heard it "full of anger and vinegar".
Interesting to know where that came from.
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Postby Bailey » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:39 am

Ah the filter changed the word which should have been P-I-S-S and vinegar, lol


mark it's-not-nice-to-fool-the-filter Bailey

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Postby sluggo » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:07 am

Strange, I've never heard "anger and vinegar". Are you guys thinking of oil? I'm gonna ask for that in a restaurant soon just to see what happens. 'Anger', I mean.

But I have heard "p1ss and vinegar" lots of times, and I'm not sure that 'anger" would be an entirely faithful translation (and I hope the waitstaff agrees).

First thing this makes me think of is the British/Cockney "taking the Mickey out" of someone.

(filter?? we have a *$@&! filter?)
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Postby Bailey » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:21 pm

But I have heard "p1ss and vinegar" lots of times, and I'm not sure that 'anger" would be an entirely faithful translation (and I hope the waitstaff agrees).


Gosh ME TOO!

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Postby skinem » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:21 pm

The filter changed it! Ha! :D
I wondered-P-I-S-S was as racy a thing as I've posted and I hestitated, but went ahead.
That is funny. Acording to my previous post I said something that I'd never heard of!

Ain't that a angerer?
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Postby Bailey » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:24 pm

I wondered P-I-S-S was as racy a thing as I've posted and I hestitated, but went ahead.

me too, I wondered if it were too "racy" but the filter did my replying on that topic, I apologise.

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Postby Perry » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:30 pm

Gosh, our brains must be running on vinegar. Look how long it took us all to realize that we had been edited by a mindless filter. :oops:
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Postby Stargzer » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:01 am

Testing

anger and vinegar

AHA! Hitting the Edit button does return the original text!

So it appears the perpetrator can edit his original text, but others can only quote the submitted text.
Last edited by Stargzer on Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stargzer » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:06 am

Stargzer wrote:Testing

anger and vinegar


Ah, this works differently than the infamous Filter on the old Board That Shall Not Be Named. Once you post, it changes the words for good. The other one only changed them when it displayed them, so if you hit the Quote button, the original text was still there in all it's glory, or infamy, as the case may be.

This is obviously a bit more family friendly. I'm a bit too tired to search out the filter's parameters tonight. Doing so made for some interesting posts in the old days ...
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Postby sluggo » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:38 am

Stargzer wrote:
Stargzer wrote:Testing

anger and vinegar


Ah, this works differently than the infamous Filter on the old Board That Shall Not Be Named. Once you post, it changes the words for good. The other one only changed them when it displayed them, so if you hit the Quote button, the original text was still there in all it's glory, or infamy, as the case may be.

This is obviously a bit more family friendly. I'm a bit too tired to search out the filter's parameters tonight. Doing so made for some interesting posts in the old days ...


I'll bet it did, this Board That Dare Not Post Its Name...

SO! Filtered all this time!? Hmph. I feel so carbonated! If I see one of them paramentaters 'round these parts I'm gonna angertol-whip it. (Angertol-whip it good!)
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