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Odd construction

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Odd construction

Postby Ferrus » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:21 am

I have been reading Duff Cooper (a caddish 30's-50's politician) and he uses the phrase: 'I thought her not so pretty'. Has anyone else seen this before?
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Postby Bailey » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:20 am

caddish?

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Postby Palewriter » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:32 pm

Bailey wrote:caddish?

mark more-interested-in-Ferrus'-definition-than-the-dictionary's Bailey


Yes. He was a buddy of Churchill's and he was quite notorious for fooling around with women. Not altogether a bad thing, in my book. :-)

You certainly have to admire him for having the strength of character to resign in protest from the British Cabinet during the Chamberlain-Hitler appeasement initiative in Munich.

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Postby Bailey » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Oh as in "Cad"-ish. I get it.

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I thought her pretty.

Postby Dr. Goodword » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:31 pm

There are several verbs that accept direct objects with 'predicate' adjectives, most have to do with mental processing. It is parallel to consider, as in "I consider that she is pretty" or, shortened, "I consider her pretty," "I imagined her pretty;" "I imagined that she would be pretty" or "I imagined her pretty."

It is a peculiar prerogative of English which allows predicates of nouns in the objective case. In languages like German and Russian, where the objectives (accusative) case is used only for direct objects and direct objects cannot be the subject of a phrase, such constructions are impossible. Notice that in the shortened sentences above her is the direct object of the main sentence and subject of the dependent clause "her (=she is) pretty".

We do this elsewhere, too, usually using the infinitive construction. In the sentence "I asked her to do it," her is the direct object of asked and the subject of do it at the same time. In languages with real case systems, this is impossible. It is possible in English because the case system has vanished except for the pronouns I, we, he, she and our comfort level with constructions like between you and I show that it is on the way out even for these pronouns.
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Postby Stargzer » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:37 pm

Bailey wrote:caddish?...


Not to be confused with Kaddish ...
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Re: I thought her pretty.

Postby anders » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:52 pm

Dr. Goodword wrote:In the sentence "I asked her to do it," her is the direct object of asked and the subject of do it at the same time. In languages with real case systems, this is impossible.

May I offer a different interpretation:

An infinitive (to do) doesn't have a subject. In the sentence, "to do it" is a second object of "asked". Thus it is no problem in for example German: "Ich habe sie gebeten, es zu tun." (sie in accusative).
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Postby Bailey » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:39 pm

Stargzer wrote:
Bailey wrote:caddish?...


Not to be confused with Kaddish ...

I like Kaddosh, Kaddosh, Kaddosh, Adanai, Saveothe(sp?)

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Postby Perry » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:55 am

I may just have to ask you boys to come with me to synagogue. You seem ready. :lol:
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Postby Bailey » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:09 pm

I used to go to a Messianic temple. The services were very 'Old-fashioned' lots of Hebrew.

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Postby Perry » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:37 pm

But have you ever gone to a messy antic temple or synagogue?
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Postby Bailey » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:14 pm

oy vey

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Postby sluggo » Mon May 28, 2007 7:26 pm

I've surely seen it before- I've always taken it to mean "to be" is understood:
I thought her (to be) not so pretty

likewise, implicit "to be" or "as":

He thought it unwise... (to be unwise)
Consider it done... (as done)
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Postby melissa » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:03 pm

Agree, sluggo. A major habit in English to skip words that don't contribute to the meaning. As 'I thought it foolish', just a shorthand and a way of eliminating unnecessary verbiage. Curiously, we can't do it always, seems to be limited to the 3rd person or reflexive.
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