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How do you say cathedral in that language?

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby Brazilian dude » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:43 am

Thanks you guys, now I know what they are, but I still need a translation. Knowing what they are, though, will take me far, because now it's only a matter of calling a couple of friends of mine who are architects.

Contrafuerte really helped me. It's called contraforte in Portuguese :)

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Postby anders » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:01 pm

M. Henri Day wrote:Garzo, in the event Anders desires a collaborator, I'd be willing to help with the Swedish, and possibly with the Norwegian translation as well. But one can't (or at least shouldn't) translate what one can't understand, and I found myself in some difficulty with the biographical sketch of the good William Longspee :
... By marriage, he gained the title of the first Earl of Salisbury.

How can one gain a title by marriage, and yet be the first to hold that title ? Or does the above period mean indicate that William Longspee gained the title of someone else who was the first Earl of Salisbury, presumably by marrying his widow ?...

Thank you, Henri, I'll send you proofs. There'll probably be seveal mispellings from my left hand, as usual.

I'm also puzzled by the title thing, and I'll probably go for just "carvings" for "misericords", but I think that I've found most of the architectural items except that the arches will be included in the buttresses. The layout at http://www.salisburycathedral.org.uk/ca ... floor_plan was helpful for "cloister". And the final prayer might need a more poetic touch than what I arrive at.
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Postby M. Henri Day » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:22 pm

Anders, it will be a great pleasure to collaborate with you ! I’ve done a fair amount of weird things in my life, but helping to translate tourist brochures for an Anglican cathedral is likely to top them all....

As regards the first Earl of Salisbury’s inherited title, I have done some investigating and found here the following information :
The town remained in the possession of the Kings of England until the reign of Henry II when the Manor was granted to his illegitimate son William Longspee (or Longsword). Richard 1 was Henry's successor who was ward to Ela who he gave to William Longspee in marriage. This William was later made Earl of Salisbury, Sherriff of Wiltshire, Constable of Dover and Warden of the Cinque Ports - so we can se that the Manor of Somerton has been held by some pretty important and influential people.

Another source provides the detail that Ela, born in 1187, had «inherited the title (from her father [I presume his title was Count of Salisbury]) of Countess of Salisbury at the age of 9 years». This, I think, is sufficient to clear up the ambiguity in the biographical sketch of the man with the long sword, and I hope that garzo won’t mind if we emend (the Swedish version of) the sketch to bring it in accord with these data….

Henri

PS : I hope it was a happy marriage....
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby tcward » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:48 pm

Here's a very cool glossary entry from Michelli's History of Stained Glass:

strainer arch
Single or double arch (upright or inverted or both) set against piers whose loads have become unbalanced. The thrust from the strainer arch balances the thrust from the unbalanced load, and the masonry in the pier goes thankfully back into compression.


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Postby Garzo » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:22 am

Having read different language versions of the guide to Salisbury Cathedral, I have come to the conclusion that the English original is certainly not the best written. In fact, each translator has made solid improvements to the text. Obviously, some cathedral hack sat down to write the original based on hearsay and poor grammar. My copy of the English text had to be polished slightly to prevent me from whincing whilst reading it. So, perhaps the translator is no longer the traitor!

The Spanish version has:
4. El crucero principal

Al principio las cuatro columnas grandes sostenían sólo una linterna baja. Durante los siglos XIII y XIV se añadieron la torre actual y la aguja, que alcanza una altura de 123 m; es la aguja más alta de Inglaterra y la suprema gloria de la Catedral, pero ha causado cierta deformación, que puede verse desde la base de las columnas. Medidas para reforzar el edificio incluyeron la instalación de arbotantes y arcos de apoyo.


Section 5 is simply called el Coro.

I hope this is of help.

-- Garzo.
"Poetry is that which gets lost in translation" — Robert Frost
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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:32 am

arcos de apoyo.

Arcos de apoio, em português, I think that's it. Good thing you posted this, Garzo, because my friend the architect hasn't returned my call yet.

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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:22 pm

Garzo, the translation should be in your inbox by now.

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Postby Apoclima » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:05 pm

arcos de apoyo

That's too easy!

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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:10 pm

Why is that easy?

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Postby tcward » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:38 pm

Because I almost figured it out, it's that easy. I was up last night trying to figure out what it might be called.

First I translated "strainer arch" directly, knowing it wouldn't be practical -- and it came out arco de filtro. So it was translating "strainer" as a "filter", which is a different kind of straining.

So then I changed the translation to "resisting arch", which was translated as arco resistindo. But that didn't sound quite right to me.

So then I thought, "I wonder what 'supporting arch' would be..." And it translated it to arco de apoiando...!

So close...

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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:56 pm

Neither arco de resistindo nor arco de apoiando is possible in Portuguese or Spanish, because the form in -ndo is used after a verb like estar, never after a preposition.

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P.S. Resistindo is Portuguese for resistiendo and apoiando is Portuguese for apoyando. Tim, I didn't know you spoke Portuguese as well. That's the thing with similar languages, sometimes you make a mistake but that word may exist in a closely-related language. Believe you me, that's what I do with Danish and Swedish.
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Postby tcward » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:00 pm

Ah, so probably it didn't have the 'de', just arco apoiando...

What can I say, it was late... I almost posted it last night but then I thought, who am I to suggest... lol.

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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:22 pm

Tim, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but arco apoiando is not right either. Nevertheless your suggestions are always welcome.

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Postby Apoclima » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:57 pm

Good work, Tim! That BD is such a perfectionist, only perfect counts for anything with him. He must be very hard to live with, esp. with himself!

Isn't "arco de apoyo" used for "arch support" for your feet too?

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Postby Brazilian dude » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:22 am

:cry:
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