VALENTINE - A Preview (comments welcome)

[M. Henri Day]

Thanks for the offer of help, BD ! Actually, I've «always» (the last 35 years) found Portuguese fascinating, but have been too indolent to do anything about it. Alas, if I continue to mess things up so badly that I attempt to put the tilde over the «e» instead of over the «o» - where it, of course, belongs in Camões, -I shan't be able to avail myself of any help, no matter how generously offered !...

Henri

[Flaminius]

I have been searching the chapter and the verse (and of course, the book) before I contribute this:

Better to dine on weeds where there is love than to eat fat ox with hatred.

I thought it was in Proverbs but couldn't find it. Just wanted to share it before next Valentine comes.

Flam

[KatyBr]

Better to dine on weeds where there is love than to eat fat ox with hatred.

Flam

I can't of course speak for all women, but on a day noted for eating chocolate and being beautiful, the words "weeds" and "fat" and "hatred" are not terribly romantic to me!

Katy
btw: PR 15:17 Better a meal of vegetables where there is love
than a fattened calf with hatred.

OR
PR 17:1 Better a dry crust with peace and quiet
than a house full of feasting, with strife.
AND same thought...
PR 21:9 Better to live on a corner of the roof
than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.

NIV

[Flaminius]

Good lesson of how to be romantic, Katy. If I start today, I wager I can hope to get as much chocolate as I want (of course, I cannot consume much quantity thereof).

[M. Henri Day]

For some reason, I prefer the King James version :

Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith.

Let us hope that there still exist dinners with both a stalled (i e, in order to be fattened, as opposed to an ox that pulled the plough) ox and love on the menu (and some chocolates for dessert, to keep Katy happy !)...

Henri

[KatyBr]

For some reason, I prefer the King James version :

stalled (i e, in order to be fattened,
Henri

no one uses the word stalled for fattened(correctly: finished) anymore, it's obscure language.

Katy

[M. Henri Day]

The Hebrew scholars on this forum can help us to understand how the word the King James Version translates as «stalled» should be interpreted ; incompetent in these matters, I didn't intend to argue for its faithfulness to the original. I also agree that the verb is obscure, as it now is most usually used to mean something other than «placed in a stall». What I did say was that I, «[f]or some reason», preferred this version. If asked to explain, I can only adduce two reasons, which - in order of their psychological importance - are as follows :

1) my first readings in an English-language bible were in that version, which makes it an old friend, with whose foibles and obscurities I find myself comfortable (not always so with the content !), and

2) here, the slightly archaic word «stalled» calls forth in my mind a vivid picture of an ox, contented to be fed and with avoiding the yoke, and who does not yet realise that this munificence on the part of his master is not really due to the latter's concern for his well-being....

Henri

[Flaminius]

Henri, I don't pretend to be a Hebrew scholar but here is some info I have nymmed from Ben Yehuda's Pocket Dictionary.

The Hebrew word for "stalled" is avus (fattened). This is related to evus (trough or manger). For a bilingual chapter for this passage look here.

Flam

[Brazilian dude]

I really don't understand this nym Flam used. I did some research on it http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213443,00.html and I don't see any connection between the way he used it and the definition I found. I'm sure I am missing something here. I'm imbecillic when it comes to computers.

Brazilian dude

[Flaminius]

In the days of Shakespeare, to nym was to steal. One of his characters in Henry V is named Nym for his propensity for theft.

http://www.shakespeare-literature.com/Henry_V/0.html

Just I didn't realise nym v. has already got its life stolen.

Flam

[Brazilian dude]

Flam, all the occurrences for Nym in that link you gave are of proper names.

Brazilian dude

[Flaminius]

Yes, remember what he was executed for?

[Brazilian dude]

I can't remember, I never learned that. I don't know squat about that.

Brazilian dude

[Flaminius]

You should check the synopsis of my link.

[Brazilian dude]

Well, I'm sorry, Flam, but I don't get anything that you are saying. That's fine, though.

Brazilian dude