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The Unknown Winners

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:43 pm

Why on earth would you ask a bus driver if he drives buses?

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Postby tcward » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:02 pm

Why would you ask a singer if he sings? ;)

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Re: The Unknown Winners

Postby tcward » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:32 pm

yurifink wrote:根据最新民意测验的结果,大约55%的受调者支持瑞士加入申根协议, 35%的人持反对态度。


根据最新民意测验的结果 = "according to the latest opinion polls"

大约 = "approximately"

受调者 = "adjust"...? (probably more correctly "adjusted")

支持瑞 = "supports"...?

士加入 = "gentlemen"...?

申根协议 = "Shanghai root agreement"...?

的人持反对态度 = "disagree", or something like that.


So, yuri, I think the phrase you are looking for, 受调者, means something like "adjust" or "adjusted", depending on context.

But I don't know squat about Chinese.

-Tim

...So I guess the statement reads something like this:

According to the latest opinion polls, an adjusted (estimated?) 55% of people approve of the Shanghai Root Agreement, and 35% disapprove.
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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:51 pm

Tim, how did you do this? Who needs to learn languages if they have a friend like you?

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Postby Brazilian dude » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:53 pm

Why would you ask a singer if he sings?


I wouldn't. Does a tree really fall down in the forest if there's no one to hear it?

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Postby yurifink » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:30 am

an adjusted (estimated?) 55% of people


XXX (approximately 55%)!

The answer received by analyzing morphemes is not correct, I think. My version is government supporters(?) as antonym to opposition. Thank you for your efforts. But is this method safe? What I wanted was an exact meaning based on a safe source (dictionary).

PS
Shanghai Root --> Schengen
zhichi Ruì support Switz...
jiarù to become a member
35%de rén chí fânduì tàidu 35% of the population support the opposition's approach

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Postby tcward » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:36 pm

Yes, the whole "Shanghai Root Agreement" thing was confusing to me. Now I see what the Schengen countries are.

The 15 Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. All these countries except Norway and Iceland are European Union members.


When I did the research (which is obviously informal), I didn't search on individual morphemes. That would have taken forever, for someone who doesn't know a lick of Chinese. (Got tired of saying "squat".) So when I did my searches, I searched on groups of morphemes, which is quite easy in Google. From those results I was able to put together the basic meaning of the morpheme groups.

I don't think I would use the term "opposition" unless the source was describing an organized group of people who were opposed. The quote you have provided indicates that these people are not formally linked to one another, except to say that they all disapprove. The same for who you called "supporters"; I would say they are not, in a strict sense, supporters of this, because it is not an organization.

As the source is describing poll results, I would probably leave it at approve vs. disapprove. But that may be just me.

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Postby yurifink » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:44 pm

TIM says
I don't think I would use the term "opposition" unless the source was describing an organized group of people who were opposed. The quote you have provided indicates that these people are not formally linked to one another, except to say that they all disapprove. The same for who you called "supporters"; I would say they are not, in a strict sense, supporters of this, because it is not an organization.


It's very interesting

I searched on groups of morphemes, which is quite easy in Google


I don't know squat about Google translation. Please describe in detail.

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Postby Brazilian dude » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:11 pm

Yurifink, can't you see Tim and I don't know the first thing about Chinese? We just jumped in because your query didn't result in any responses and we thought we might as well give our 2 cents worth, even if it was just for kicks.

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Postby tcward » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:36 pm

Yuri, here's basically what I did.

First, I searched on the entire first "phrase", or group of morphemes, if you prefer:

根据最新民意测验的结果

But, as you will see when you click the link, it (the search engine) is smart enough to recognize that those are Chinese morphemes, and the search results are for split pieces of the group. This didn't help me at all, so I modified my search for the entire phrase by putting the group of morphemes in quotes:

"根据最新民意测验的结果"

Fortunately, I had a lot of hits on the entire phrase, and it was quite easy to figure out what the phrase meant by opening the Chinese link in one window, and going back and clicking the "translate this page" link and finding the translated phrase by referring back to the original page in Chinese.

And so on and so forth.

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Postby yurifink » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:18 am

BD---
Tim and I don't know the first thing about Chinese?


In this case the result is remarkable and good as an approximate translation of the whole sentence. But my problem is one word: 受调者 and my version: government supporters --> people approving his government is not the ultimate solution.

Tim---
And so on and so forth


I swear mastering Chinese may turn out to be a simpler task!

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Postby Flaminius » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:08 pm

yurifink,
受 = receive
調 = investigation, question, inquiry (presumably abbreviated form for 調査)
者 = persons

so in toto, 受調者 is those who are surveyed.

About 55 % of the surveyed agrees, etc.

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Postby tcward » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:37 am

Flam to the rescue! He makes my individual guesses look completely off the mark, but what the hey...

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...good to see you back, Flam!
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:40 am

A weekly receiver? What do I know? I don't know squat about Chinese.

At least I got the receiver part right. :roll:

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Postby yurifink » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:59 am

Thank you, Flam, you are a real friend. The investigation is over.
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