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DIDACTIC

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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby Slava » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:55 pm

I'm not so sure "I walk" is necessarily the present tense. How about, "I walk in the park every day," or "The cat goes, or I walk"?
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby Philip Hudson » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:33 am

Not too didactic MTC, just a stance with which I disagree. I stand by my assertion that we have no present tense verbs. "I am walking," is present progressive tense and can serve as a present tense in a pinch. "I walk" is not present tense. "I walk ten miles each day," is present continual tense. Or present continuous. ¿Quién sabe?
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby MTC » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:29 am

Here is a link to a grammar site which describes the thirteen tenses of English, among them the present and the present continuous (progressive) , with examples of each:(http://esl.about.com/od/tense-review/a/ ... nglish.htm)

This authority supports my position, Philip. Do you have authorities that support yours?

Just remember, “The greater part of the world's troubles are due to questions of grammar.”
― Michel de Montaigne

And before I "walk out'" happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby call_copse » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:30 am

I am currently, now, at this moment, slightly confused at a denial of there being a present tense? I was confused when I read about this, and expect to continue to experience this confusion, I confess. Is this a matter of semantics, or that the present tense is not quite present enough somehow, compared with other languages?

I am also intrigued by the continued culturally iconclastic campaign waged upon these pages. First Dr Seuss, now Conan-Doyle - is nothing sacred :D ?!? I always thought the deductive reasoning exhibited held adequate water to entertain. I admit the author's second most popular creation, Brigadier Gerard, is my preferred choice, for the exquisite comedy and pathos informing the stories. Although if anyone has something against ACD it should be me as he once (little known fact) played goal keeper for my football team's arch-rivals Portsmouth.

For anyone interested, the modern BBC series Sherlock with Benedict Cumberbatch is pretty brilliant, I say this as a general TV sceptic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_(TV_series)
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby Philip Hudson » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:36 am

MTC: The link
http://esl.about.com/od/tense-review/a/ ... nglish.htm
is pretty good. I do not know how to put links (hyper links?) into this space. Don't try to teach me. It is beyond me. Note, however, that the present tense definition in this review does not use the word we usually call present tense in the sense of happening now. "I eat eggs," is still not simple present tense. I am an ancient, retired systems engineer who reads and writes eclectically. I am not a grammarian. Since I have said my piece about this subject, I will not mention it again.

call_copse: Are you intrigued by the continued culturally iconoclastic campaign in this forum or had you rather not see it at all? I was hoping to add something to the forum, but perhaps I am not synchronized with the thinking of other participants. I was thoroughly bred by my mother to be an iconoclast. It is my stock in trade. My mother also taught me to be polite. If iconoclastic contributions are not wanted in Alpha Agora, then please, Good Doctor, tell me that I am out of line. Many of my contributions do not try to break any images, but I may be too "opinionated" for this forum. I do not discuss politics here, as some do, and my discussion of religion is limited and respectful. I consider myself to be an expert on religion. I can try to filter out these iconoclastic comments, but I think they lead to a better discussion. I respect opinions to the contrary and, sometimes, I am even converted.
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby Perry Lassiter » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:36 pm

Carry on, Philip. You fit in quite well. One of the attractions of this forum is we are not yes men. We all contradict (present) and have been contradicted (present participle).

Back to the subject. I eat eggs is present as opposed to I ate eggs as past. Even if one means I eat eggs every day, that is a present habit. One might say I ate eggs during an earlier period of my life.

Another question here at present is how deeply does one want to go. In first teaching grammar, surely the student most easily grasps present, past, future. Indeed, when we learn a foreign language, we learn the simplest forms. Later we learn more complicated forms, and experts might debate their usage.

In older books by mostly British writers trained in Latin and Greek, I would find discussions as to whether English had an ablative case. It is still true New Testament Greek scholars often debate whether a word is dative and, if so, what kind of dative - or locative, which has the same ending.

So I wonder if the present discussion is actually about what level of discourse we are involved in. I suspect specialists in grammar would carry this to even more complicated levels. Any kitbitzers out there professional grammarians? If so, please add your wisdom.
Last edited by Perry Lassiter on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby call_copse » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:04 pm

@Philip
I hoped my tone to come across as amused rather than censorious, this intended to be conveyed by the emoticon thus :D. I'm accustomed to you now, fear not!
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby MTC » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:16 pm

Philip, I hope you continue with your self-described
"iconoclasm." Every now and then your efforts generate a few shards and some dust, but nothing this forum can't appreciate or accommodate. Not to mention your politeness which is a rare virtue among iconoclasts.

As for English grammar, I do not posture as an expert, just as one who is somewhat familiar with the subject. Actually, Perry sounds far more expert. Anyway, no one appreciates grammaticasters, garter-tweakers of the grammatical world.

So carry on, Philip! Sic semper tyrannis and all that.
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby Audiendus » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:48 pm

Philip Hudson wrote:I stand by my assertion that we have no present tense verbs. "I am walking," is present progressive tense and can serve as a present tense in a pinch. "I walk" is not present tense. "I walk ten miles each day," is present continual tense. Or present continuous. ¿Quién sabe?

I think some verbs, in some contexts, have a genuine present tense which refers to the present moment alone. Here are a few examples:

I beg you to change your mind.
I declare this meeting closed.
I suggest we have lunch now.
I name this ship...
I admit that it is strange.
I retract what I said.
I quit!
Now, I take the top card, and hey presto...
He intercepts the ball, shoots at goal, and scores.
OK, you win!
The old curse strikes again!
It's getting exciting, I tell you!
We forbid you to enter.
I kid you not!
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Re: DIDACTIC

Postby Perry Lassiter » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:19 pm

Still, at least several of these could imply either a moment of action of continual action over some period, short or long. One could insert and add "am...ing" to these and they would make equal sense. I think it lies in the intent. To declare a meeting closed is instantaneous if one has the authority and the rules allow it. Do I beg you once, or am I begging for days? Etc.
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