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hockey

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hockey

Postby drsved » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:06 pm

It's that time of year again - maybe. I've always thought hockey and jockey must somehow have the same origins, but never checked. Any ideas?
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Re: hockey

Postby Philip Hudson » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:58 am

There is no known etymological relationship between hockey and jockey. The etymology for jockey is certain. The Jack that would be a dull boy if he had to work all the time was the same Jack who rode racehorses. It seems that Tom, Dick and Harry were each too big to ride a racehorse, but Jack was just the right size. Also he was the same Jack who was every-man-Jack of them. The best guess on hockey is the hockey club’s resemblance to a shepherd’s staff that had a hook on the end of it.
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Re: hockey

Postby Perry Lassiter » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:29 pm

What's interesting to me is that J and H are pronounced the same in Spanish and perhaps some Middle Eastern languages. J is complex. Germans pronounce it as Y, as in Jahwohl. In Spanish G about half the time is pronounced as H.

We get our hybrid word Jehovah through German. Ancient Hebrew had no vowels, so the ineffable name YHWH translated into German as JHVH, since German has no Y nor W. Someone carried those letters into English and interposed the vowels from "adonai" which means Lord. This gave us the word Jehovah, which was too widely accepted as correct and is gradually being replaced by Yahweh as in the Holman translation.

Both J and Y are only partial attempts to translate the Hebrew letter yodh, which looks like an interior quote mark, '. The W or V by the way is from the Hebrew waw, which is written by something that looks like a parenthesis or an l depending on the handwriting conventions at the time.
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Re: hockey

Postby Philip Hudson » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:05 am

Perry: When words are translated or created to go in a language that has no equivalent, one gets a word that means what the word in the source language means. Does the previous sentence make sense? I am trying to say that Jehovah, for all its convoluted source, means the same as YHWH, or Yahweh. Where did the vowels come from that are in Yahweh? I think my Religion 101 profession told me that, to the Hebrews, YHWH was too sacred for profane lips to speak and so Adonai was said in its place. Where does Elohim come into play? Does the doctrine of the Trinity gain support from this plural word for God? Does the root Hebrew word of YHWH mean I AM? Jesus said he was The I Am. Is he then YHWH? I don't know the answers to some of these questions, others, I think I do.

It will be good to hear your take on this subject. I sincerely want your opinion. Also I want to show that you, Luke and I are real live separate creatures. I have met you personally, and we have friends in common, but you ain’t me. Luke, by his unique personality also ain’t me. MTC take note and beware. I see a lot of myself in you too. I hope you don’t mind. Everyone who writes to Alpha Agora has characteristics in common.
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Re: hockey

Postby Perry Lassiter » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:28 pm

Actually, I see way more individualism than multiple personality here. To prove it, I shall disagree strongly with Philip's statement that a word such as Jehovah or Yahweh translated into English takes on the equivalent meaning from ancient Hebrew. Translators have an ongoing discussion and loosely divide translations into literal and dynamic. KJV and ASV and RSV are slanted more toward literal, while the Message is very dynamic. I could get specific, but probably we don't need to do that on this board. I regularly recommend to seminary students that they study Hebrew and archaeology because the NT writers were Jews thinking in Hebrew.

Yahweh is the personal name of God, and Elohim can mean God, gods, or angels. Context rules here. YHWH does come from the verb to be, in fact, drop the Y and you have to be. Experts say it can mean He who is, I am that I am, or I will be who I will be. Some even project it as I cause to be.
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Re: hockey

Postby Slava » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:30 pm

So, Popeye is God? "I yam what I yam." :D
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Re: hockey

Postby Perry Lassiter » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 pm

No, he's a sweet potato.
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Re: hockey

Postby Philip Hudson » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:05 am

Didn't we discuss Popeye's "I yam what I yam," in terms of personalities recently? I think the looser in the last US Presidential election said something like that of himself. What I want to know is whence came Sweetpea? Has something been going on between Popeye and Olive Oyl? Is Brutus or her early lover, Harold Hamgravy, the culprit?
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