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Psycholinguistics

Postby bnjtokyo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:37 am

There doesn't seem to be a better category for this article from Nature about mind and language:

http://www.nature.com/news/why-tongue-t ... ay-1.12471
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby gailr » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:34 am

I've observed that consciously trying to over-control pronunciation while repeating a tongue twister does not help in avoiding slips.
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby Slava » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:54 am

Tongue twisters are also not universal. For example, "Toy Boat" is simple for Russians. The sound combination is not a factor in Russian.
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby gailr » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:58 pm

^ Can you elaborate on this?
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby Slava » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:20 pm

gailr wrote:^ Can you elaborate on this?

Most English speakers have a hard time repeating "toy boat" several times in succession. They almost always end up saying "toy boyt," often within 3 or 4 repeats. Russians have no such problem with it.
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby gailr » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:36 pm

Ha! I can say that aloud once in a row. Are there tongue twisters in Russian (or related) languages which don't trip up others?

I wonder if a trilled r in one's native tongue helps with sound combinations that are more difficult in languages without one?
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby Perry Lassiter » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:43 pm

In Spanish, the trilled R seems to vary with dialect. I once spoke with a lady returned from missionary work in one South American country that swore there were no trilled R's in Spanish. Last I heard she had moved to South Texas near the Mexican border, and I bet she trills them now. Puerto Ricans seem to me to trill everything in addition to R's, and the Tex-Mex I hear trills a lot. Cubans are the most understandable to me, but they also trill R's.
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby gailr » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:40 pm

I raised that question because I couldn't trill an r until mumblety years ago. I find it quite easy adjacent to most letter/sounds now, but with others it is still difficult. If I had grown up with hearing and using this sound, there'd be no difficulty. My curiosity is now piqued as to how different language groups affect native speakers in pronouncing tongue twisters or other shibboleths.
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby Perry Lassiter » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:20 am

Actually the Spanish books I was taught from had both r and rr in the alphabet. One r may have no flutter or a brief one, but the rr requires a solid role. Since the native speakers didn't learn from books...
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby bnjtokyo » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:01 am

Actually, the contrast between a trilled /r/ and a flap /ɾ/ is phonemic in Spanish. There are minimal pairs
perro [pɛro] - dog
pero [pɛɾo] - but

carro vs caro - (automobile vs expensive)

cerro vs cero - (mountain vs zero)
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby Slava » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:20 pm

gailr wrote:Ha! I can say that aloud once in a row. Are there tongue twisters in Russian (or related) languages which don't trip up others?

Tongue-Twisters can be fun. Little did I know that our very own Good Doctor has compiled a significant number of them in many different languages for our delectation, if we know the alphabet used, that is.

If you care to try your hand, or mouth, on them, here they be. If you know any that are missing, there's a link there to supply them.

As for me, all the Russian ones are quite difficult, despite many years of study and life in the country.
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Re: Psycholinguistics

Postby gailr » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:40 pm

Thanks for the link to that section, Slava; lots to peruse there!
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