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Chinese "rap"

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Chinese "rap"

Postby frank » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:34 pm

Hi all,

I'm desperately looking for a term in English and Chinese for a method used in language teaching. In short, the method (or exercise, if you want) consists of phrases/dialogues said/sung on the rhythm of a musical tune. With a bit of fantasy one might call it rapping.

So, two and a half questions:
1. does anybody has an idea what i'm talking about, i mean, what the term is in English?
2. how could that term be translated into Chinese?
2b. What's the Chinese word for 'to rap' (as in rap music)

As always, thanks in advance.

Frank
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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:36 am

The only thing I can think of is singalong. What's the name in Dutch?

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Postby frank » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:31 am

Brazilian dude wrote:The only thing I can think of is singalong. What's the name in Dutch?


In Dutch it's often called "riedel", one French handbook i could find gives it the term "Ritmimots" (which captures the idea behind it very well).

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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:26 pm

I really don't know, but take a look here.

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Re: Chinese "rap"

Postby frank » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:32 pm

frank wrote:I'm desperately looking for a term in English and Chinese for a method used in language teaching. In short, the method (or exercise, if you want) consists of phrases/dialogues said/sung on the rhythm of a musical tune. With a bit of fantasy one might call it rapping.
So, two and a half questions:
1. does anybody has an idea what i'm talking about, i mean, what the term is in English?
2. how could that term be translated into Chinese?
2b. What's the Chinese word for 'to rap' (as in rap music)


Quoting and answering my own mail is slightly preposterous, i know, but anyway... :-)

Meanwhile, i learned about the Chinese term for "to rap", viz. 说唱, lit. "speak/say - song/sing". Other people sent me mpg3's with Chinese rap songs. Somebody told me that "hip hop" in Chinese is "hiphop" or "街舞", lit. "street dance".
I guess that's exactly why i like boards like this: if you ask a question, people give you much much more than just a simple answer... BTW, thanks BD for the link, interesting stuff indeed!!!!!

Nevertheles, still curious about the "say-sing stuff" term in English...

Groetjes,

Frank
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Re: Chinese "rap"

Postby Flaminius » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:18 pm

frank wrote:Nevertheles, still curious about the "say-sing stuff" term in English...

Groetjes,

Frank


Vocabulary rap. Google's define command does not yield definition pages for this word but I checked several sites to confirm in what context the word is used.

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Re: Chinese "rap"

Postby frank » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:03 am

Vocabulary rap. Google's define command does not yield definition pages for this word but I checked several sites to confirm in what context the word is used.


It's indeed exactly what i was looking for!
Thanks, guys, for al the replies!!!

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Postby Brazilian dude » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:53 am

Isn't it funny that it's so obvious after you see it? Then you think, how didn't I think about it?

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Re: Chinese "rap"

Postby M. Henri Day » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:45 am

frank wrote:...

I guess that's exactly why i like boards like this: if you ask a question, people give you much much more than just a simple answer...


Sometimes one doesn't even have to ask a question - it's enough to let oneself be inspired by a discussion carried out by others ! It's fascinating, for example, to compare the manner in which the Chinese language today responds to the need for new terms, i e, by means of semantic loans, as seen above, with that adopted by the Japanese language, i e, phonetic loans. Thus the two terms borrowed from English become in Japanese «ラップ» («rappu») and «ヒップホップ» («hippuhoppu»), respectively (here it should be remembered that the unaccented «u»s are pronounced as very weak «ǝ» ; perhaps Flam would care to elucidate further). Other equally fascinating linguistic changes reflecting the great social transformations taking place just now in China show how older locutions gain new and very different meanings ; try googling, e g, «同志», during the last century used as the egalitarian term of address «Comrade», but which now seems to have taken on a rather different - or let us say, more restricted - meaning....

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曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Flaminius » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:38 am

Japanese «ラップ» («rappu») and «ヒップホップ» («hippuhoppu»), respectively (here it should be remembered that the unaccented «u»s are pronounced as very weak «ǝ» ; perhaps Flam would care to elucidate further).


Zweifellos, Henri.

In case of «ラップ» rappu, U is pronounced very clearly since the syllable is either accented or pronounced with the same stress level. Some phoneticians argue that this is an auditory illusion.

In ordinary Japanese words the first syllable is expected to be stronger than the second one. When "rappu" is articulated with even stress on both syllables, auditory processual mechanism of a Japanese brain, the relative softness of the first syllable is callibrated as an imagined stress on the second.

I think there has to be a good Wiki article written on why phonetic loans into Japanese tend to have an accent on ultima.
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Postby M. Henri Day » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:52 am

I stand corrected, Flam ; for this relief much thanks ! Am I to understand then that in «ヒップホップ», the unaccented «u»s are pronounced as very weak «ǝ», in accordance with what I wrote earlier, but in the the case of «ラップ», the word is, in fact, pronounced as having two syllables, with the «u» receiving at least as much stress as the preceding «a» ?...

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Flaminius » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:08 am

Anri-dono. なにも訂正なさることはありませんよ。

I just gave further explanation, taking granted that everyone understands Henri's explanation is basically cogent. Having made an objective note, I confess to my detestation to those 尻上がり語 or loan words with ultima stress.

From a sociolinguistic point of view, I realise that using a lot of 尻上がり語 in a specific part of vocabulary, e.g., in information technology industry, makes one sound like an expert. Faithfulness to pronunciations of the source language is regarded, at the extreme, as a sign of apprenticeship. Ultima stress may be serving as a sign of familiarity with the subject here.

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Postby M. Henri Day » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:24 pm

いや、其の事はありません!出来るだけ訂正呉れる様に申上げます!しないと、小生は何も新しい事を覚えるのが不可能ですから。 外来語の中に«ラップ»見たいな《尻上がり語》が有る事が分かりませんでしたが教えて戴きまして、本当に有難う御座居ます。。。。

安理
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Stargzer » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:47 pm

M. Henri Day wrote:いや、其の事はありません!出来るだけ訂正呉れる様に申上げます!しないと、小生は何も新しい事を覚えるのが不可能ですから。 外来語の中に«ラップ»見たいな《尻上がり語》が有る事が分かりませんでしたが教えて戴きまして、本当に有難う御座居ます。。。。

安理


Someday Ah gotta lurn whatall them thar chicken-scratches mean! :wink:

Well, there is no thing of the 其! Just it is possible, the correction Kure れ る way stating it lifts! Unless it does,
because it is impossible to remember that what Koike as for is new. The ォ lap サ you saw in adopted word to be, << rear end rising language >> it did not understand that it is, but you teaching, the seat it stays truly gratefully


Thanks, Systran. I think.

(Oh, that post window gets kinda ugly with all them thar chicken-scratches in them. :lol: )
Regards//Larry

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Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:16 am

Stargzer wrote: ...

(Oh, that post window gets kinda ugly with all them thar chicken-scratches in them. :lol: )


«There's no 'counting for taste», said the old woman and kissed the cow....


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