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How do you say cathedral in that language?

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby tcward » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:37 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:Tim, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but arco apoiando is not right either. Nevertheless your suggestions are always welcome.

Brazilian dude


No, you misunderstand... I'm using the Babel Fish translator, and it was translating my English into Portuguese for me.

I was saying that maybe it had said arco apoiando was the Portuguese translation of "supporting arch", and I had somehow thrown in the de mentally, even though it's clearly wrong.

I'm just used to those online translators being clearly wrong, so I didn't really think much of it. :P

-Tim
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Postby Apoclima » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:09 pm

Lighten up, BD! I am sure that we all appreciate your knowledge and dedication. It just seemed to me that you were being a bit short (or dismissive) with Tim. He did find a word from the same base word, "apoyo," (or "apoyar," depending on whether you think that the noun or the verb is the base) which very easily could have lead to the correct morphology!

Although there is an adjectival form of "apoyo," Spanish does tend to prefer the "sustantivo de sustantivo" form of expressing what we call "compound nouns" in English.

The adjective form, "apoyante," is used mostly as a noun, meaning "supporter" (ie "supporting one").

Of course, the present participle, "apoyando" in Spanish cannot be used as an adjective.

There are uses of the phrase "arco de apoyo" which do not relate explicitly to architecture.

El apoyo del pie hace un recorrido desde el arco de apoyo al arco de impulso.

.....los intereses del Estado español al ampliar expresamente su arco de apoyo político....

On other pages, "arco de apoyo" is used with the simple meaning of "support arch" as for bridges, and doesn't seem to have the specific meaning of a strainer arch which keeps walls, and stained-glass windows and the like from falling or leaning in!

Are you sure that "arco de apoyo" is the most specific term for a "strainer arch?"

Boy, it's hard to find the exact right terms in another language's jargon.

Good work, BD!

Your friend,

Apo
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Postby Stargzer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:39 pm

tcward wrote: . . .
strainer arch . . . and the masonry in the pier goes thankfully back into compression.


-Tim


That is a classic bit of wordsmithing!
Regards//Larry

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Postby Stargzer » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:39 pm

tcward wrote: . . .
strainer arch . . . and the masonry in the pier goes thankfully back into compression.


-Tim


That is a classic bit of wordsmithing!
Regards//Larry

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Postby Brazilian dude » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:44 pm

Lighten up, BD!

I don't think that applies to me. The smiley was simply a joke, and I wasn't being short (or dismissive) with Tim, I even told him that his suggestions are always welcome, and that is true, because even though something imay not be the right word(ing) in a given context, it can always lead you somewhere else.

Brazilian dude

P.S. Regarding arco de apoio, my friend the architect finally returned my call and suggested arco de apoio (what I had put) or arco botante as possible translations for strainer arch.
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Postby Apoclima » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:15 am

Well, good, BD! I thought that you had taken me too seriously. I appreciate your contributions here!

BD:
even though something imay not be the right word(ing) in a given context, it can always lead you somewhere else.


Quite true! Sorry, if i misunderstood!

What would "arco botante" be in Spanish? I'm having trouble finding it in Portuguese online!

Apo
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Postby Apoclima » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:24 am

Tim:
I'm just used to those online translators being clearly wrong, so I didn't really think much of it.


Yes, they are really awful!

Apo
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Postby tcward » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:09 am

From Os modos do discurso da teoria da arquitetura:

...Perret vendo a história da arquitetura como mera conseqüência lógica da evolução técnica:

Quem afirma que a Catedral de Wells está determinada arquitetonicamente pela técnica construtiva dos arcos ogivais e arcobotantes se equivoca na medida em que dá à palavra ‘determinar’ uma interpretação exclusiva, como se o progresso da engenharia bastasse por si mesmo para explicar o mundo artístico gótico. [...] Antes de tudo parece absurda a tese de que as formas arquitetônicas estão determinadas pela técnica construtiva. Assistimos freqüentemente na história da arquitetura o processo inverso: as formas repetem uma ´tecnica já superada pelos acontecimentos.

Um bom exame dessa história mostra mais o contrário: as exigências espaciais é que demandam novas técnicas ou a retomada de tradições perdidas, como a utilização do concreto armado no modernismo, do arco botante no Gótico ou das cúpulas e arcos da arquitetura romana.


-Tim
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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:49 am

Arco botante = arco arbotante.

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Postby tcward » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:05 pm

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Postby Apoclima » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:01 pm

Good find, Tim! I've never seen so many "arcos!" It's weird! I looked for quite a while last night and couldn't get anything like that little dictionary you found!

I guess I'm slipping! I must be working too much!

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Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:12 pm

Great find indeed.

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Postby tcward » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:45 pm

Apoclima wrote:I guess I'm slipping! I must be working too much!


Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since you mentioned it... :P

-Tim
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Postby Matawan » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:46 pm

The singular of cathedral in Swedish is katedral ot domkyrka, the latter used more commonly. Dom in Swedish means judgement and domkyrka probably reflects the historic role of the church as a enforcer of what it perceived as church law- as in inquisition.
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Postby anders » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:42 am

Välkommen!

Matawan wrote:Dom in Swedish means judgement and domkyrka probably reflects the historic role of the church as a enforcer of what it perceived as church law- as in inquisition.

The different pronunciations of dom 'judgment' and dom 'cathedral' reveal the different origins. The latter is an abbreviation of domus dei 'the house of God' or a similar expression.
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