Alphadictionary.com

Our Sponsors

Technical Translation
Website Translation Clip Art
 

“and/or” there has got to be a better way?

You have words - now what do you do with them?

Postby Brazilian dude » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:15 pm

There's a language that has a conjunction similar to that and/or: Latin (the word is vel! Also the new sense that is being given to piuttosto in Italian (despite some people's disapproval) qualifies in this case.
For a discussion, take a look here (in Italian).

Brazilian dude, always with you
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:01 am

Among participants in our Agora, there certainly are others who are much better Latinists than I can claim to be, but my understanding of «vel», which seems to be confirmed by Smith and Lockwood's Chambers Murray Latin English Dictionary, is that the term was either used as «and» or as (exclusive) «or» (or repeated, as «either ... or»), but not as «and/or», i e, the inclusive «or». I think Alberto74 from the philologically inclined city of Napoli explained this matter - and the use of «piuttosto» - best of those posting to the site to which BD kindly provided a link....

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Postby Brazilian dude » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:53 pm

solidus \SAH-luh-dus\ noun

1 : an ancient Roman gold coin introduced by Constantine and used to the fall of the Byzantine Empire
*2 : a mark / used typically to denote "or" (as in and/or), "and or" (as in straggler/deserter), or "per" (as in feet/second)

Example sentence:
In her latest thriller, the author manipulates her readers into believing there are two killers until the final page, where she connects their two names with a solidus.

Did you know?
Call it a solidus, or call it a slash/diagonal/slant/virgule — whatever you call it, you are bound to run into this useful mark with some regularity. These days, one place the mark is commonly seen is in Internet addresses (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwwod.pl, for example), but the history of the word "solidus" takes us back to a time well before computers. The ancient Roman emperor Constantine the Great borrowed the Latin term for "solid" ("solidus") for the gold coin that was the successor to the aureus. And in Medieval Latin, "solidus" designated the shilling. Before the introduction of decimal coinage, abbreviations of the shilling ("s," "sh," or "shil") were used. Eventually, the abbreviations were replaced with the simple symbol "/," which became known as a solidus.

*Indicates the sense illustrated in the example sentence.


Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby M. Henri Day » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:56 pm

And while speaking of the solidus (in the first sense above), don't forget its derivative, «soldier». Follow the money....

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:41 pm

www.fundeu.es

y/o
11/07/2005 Para evitar el uso del incómodo y creo que no aceptado y/o, por favor, ¿me podéis dar un argumento para disuadir de su uso?

Respuesta :
La Real Academia admite el uso de y/o para aceptar la existencia de dos opciones posibles o la elección entre esas dos opciones. Sin embargo, otros autores no están de acuerdo y la rechazan directamente porque les parece algo agramatical.
Algunos dan otra opción como la aiguiente: y(o) que también rechazan los que no están de acuerdo con y/o.


Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:36 pm

«Una fundación sin ánimo de lucro» must be the most elegant way of saying «non-profit foundation» that I've ever seen ! And I also like the unauthoritarian way in which they reasoned concerning the question - you weren't the one that sent it in, were you, BD ?...
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:50 pm

Yeah, you normally say una organización/fundación sin fines de lucro.

No, it wasn't I who sent the question.

Brazilian dude
Languages rule!
Brazilian dude
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Botucatu - SP Brazil

Postby anders » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:10 pm

The Swedish Language Council – the official language cultivation body of Sweden - makes it easier for me:
The expression "and/or" shouldn't be used unnecessarily when just "or" is sufficient. If you have to declare that it is a case of 'a or b or both', you'll be on the safe side if you state all the alternatives explicitely. (My paraphrase of the Svenska skrivregler (Swedish rules for writing)).
Irren ist männlich
anders
Lexiterian
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:46 am
Location: Sweden

Postby M. Henri Day » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:35 am

anders wrote:... The expression "and/or" shouldn't be used unnecessarily when just "or" is sufficient. ...


Good to know that Svenska skrivregler also does homage to such concepts as pleonasm and tautology....

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

So your saying you don't know?!

Postby eberntson » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:55 pm

Although I like to be a showoff and I do like using Latin in my English when I understand it. Vell I don't think "vel" vill do! I would like people to know what I am talking about. I do appreciate pointing out the use of "or both" and will try it.

But come on folks you are telling me some 17th century Englishman who had retired to the country after a life in the London coffee shops didn't look at "vel" in Latin and those smart-ass Swedes (1/2 myself) and covet the word and/or meaning and come up with a English equivalent. What about all those transcendentalists in the 18th century America and Whitman sitting in his field of grass, heck what about the 19th century bright boys that were the free thinkers in Europe before the Great War? None of them saw the need for a combination of a conjunctive and disjunctive or both hybrid. If the Eskimos can have over 200 words for snow, and English have thousands of euphemisms for parts of human anatomy or intercourse, or the combination of both. Why can’t I have a word that means “and/or”?

Happy New Year! You bunch of topic drifters

:D
User avatar
eberntson
Lexiterian
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:48 am
Location: Boston, Mass

Re: So your saying you don't know?!

Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:12 pm

eberntson wrote:... Why can’t I have a word that means “and/or”?

Happy New Year! You bunch of topic drifters

:D


Whose says you can't ?!! Just come up with one and see if you can get others to adopt it ! We smart-arse Swedes and benighted topic drifters will be rooting for you !...

God fortsättning !

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
M. Henri Day
Grand Panjandrum
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 am
Location: Stockholm, SVERIGE

Previous

Return to Grammar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron