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veredicto

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

veredicto

Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:46 pm

I found this interesting:

LA PALABRA DEL DÍA

*** veredicto ***

A pesar de no ser una lengua latina, el inglés incluye en su léxico incontables
voces de ese origen, que fueron dejadas allí por los romanos. Y a veces ocurre
que esas palabras latinas vertidas al inglés son relatinizadas y pasan a formar
parte de las lenguas romances.

Es el caso de *veredicto*, un vocablo formado a partir de la españolización de
la palabra inglesa *verdict* (dicho verdadero). Sin embargo, es fácil percibir
que el latín no estaba ausente de esa palabra inglesa, que fue tomada en la Edad
Media del francés normando *veir dit*, con el mismo significado.
El *veredicto* es el fallo de un jurado, que proclama a un reo ‘inocente’ o
‘culpable’, y no debe ser confundido con la *sentencia*, que es la decisión de
un juez o de un tribunal.


Translation:

Although it is not a Romance language, English includes in its lexicon countless words from that origin, which were left there by the Romans. And sometimes it so happens that these words rendered into English are re-Latinized and become a part of Romance languages.

That is the case of veredicto, a word formed from the Hispanicization of the English word verdict (true saying/statement). Also, it is easy to notice that Latin was not absent in that English word, which was taken in the Middle Ages from Norman French veir dit, with the same meaning.

The verdict is the rule of a jury, which finds* a defendant innocent or guilty, and should not be confused with sentencia (sentence), which is the decision of a judge or a lawcourt.

* I was thinking whether I should say ... of a jury, which finds or of a jury, who find. Since someone can only be found innocent or guilty by the entire jury and not by its individual components, I was right in using the singular verb and which, not who, because I see it as a single body. Do you guys agree with me?

Brazilian dude
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Postby M. Henri Day » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:30 pm

BD, English has a problem with grammatical number and collective nouns like «jury» or «government». Generally speaking, in the UK, constructions like «the government have» are the more usual, while in the US the norm is «the government has». Still, even in the US, constructions like «we the jury find the defendent ...», in which the plural «we» is apposed to the singular «jury», are the norm. Indeed, a hint of ambiguity seems also to be present in the original Spanish, as «jurado» (the sworn) can refer both to a jury and to a (single) juror. (I also find it interesting to note that «reo», from Latin «reus», can mean both «defendant» and «guilty party» ; so much for being presumed innocent until found guilty !...

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Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:34 pm

Right, I know all that, but would you have done the same thing that I did as regards subject-verb agreement and relative pronoun?

Indeed, a hint of ambiguity seems also to be present in the original Spanish, as «jurado» (the sworn) can refer both to a jury and to a (single) juror.

I'd never thought about that. Portuguese has two words for that: júri for the first and jurado for the second case.

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Postby M. Henri Day » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:00 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:Right, I know all that, but would you have done the same thing that I did as regards subject-verb agreement and relative pronoun? ...


What I was trying to say in my customary pleonastic manner, was that I should probably hesitate - just as you did - between the two alternatives. However, I do think that in most cases, I should in the end have made the same choices you did....

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Postby tcward » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:59 pm

So, in this case, BD, Henri is not saying that he has to agree with you... instead, he is saying that coincidence and circumstance being what they may, his opinion is the same as yours. ;)

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Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:39 pm

But what's your own opinion on the matter presented by BD, Tim ?...

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Postby tcward » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:44 am

I find myself in agreement with you, Henri. ;)

-Tim
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