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KMark & WalMark

A forum for discussing US dialects (accents).

KMark & WalMark

Postby jozziejane » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:51 pm

In Chattanooga, TN, there are a lot of people who use KMark instead of Kmart and Walmark instead of Walmart. This drives me nuts. Anyone else ever hear of such? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

JJ
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A discount store by any other name.................

Postby joytoy_ohboy » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:14 pm

would still smell the same. hahaha. Yes, I have heard some uneducated people say Wal-Mark and K-Mark. I beleive it is just ignorance, not to be taken offensively.
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Re: A discount store by any other name.................

Postby frank » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:48 am

joytoy_ohboy wrote:would still smell the same. hahaha. Yes, I have heard some uneducated people say Wal-Mark and K-Mark. I beleive it is just ignorance, not to be taken offensively.

Could you please explain me exactly what being "uneducated" has to do with all this?

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Postby gailr » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:51 pm

I'm guessing that "uneducated" refers to the part of the population which does not read (mostly by their own choice). These people do not grasp the relationship between the letters in the store's name and the sounds used to pronounce it. "Educated" people are generally expected to pronounce words and names correctly, regardless of whether their neighbors do or not.

You didn't mention, jozziejane, if the locals in your area also automatically add an "s" to then end of those business names: KMarks, WalMarks, Barnes & Nobles...

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Postby frank » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:29 am

gailr wrote:I'm guessing that "uneducated" refers to the part of the population which does not read (mostly by their own choice). These people do not grasp the relationship between the letters in the store's name and the sounds used to pronounce it. "Educated" people are generally expected to pronounce words and names correctly, regardless of whether their neighbors do or not.

Does it also apply to people who write the /i:/-sound of 'believe' the same way as in 'receive'? This is not to be taken offensively. I'm not nitpicking, not making a (sarcastic) joke. Actually, I don't care that much about spelling or spelling mistakes (or typos). I'm just wondering about the limits of what you people call "uneducated" in relation to language usage.

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Postby gailr » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:37 pm

I'm not sure who all is encompassed in "you people";
speaking just for myself, the following definition pretty well covers it:
1. Having an education, especially one above the average. 2a. Showing evidence of schooling, training, or experience. b. Having or exhibiting cultivation; cultured: an educated manner. 3. Based on a certain amount of experience or factual knowledge: an educated guess.

I consider 2a to include the ability to recognize and correctly use common words in one's native language, which is different from perpetrating the occasional typo, or adhering to regional differences in pronunciation.

If this were a legitimate dialectical difference, those shopping at "K-Mark" would laugh at the antics of "Bark" on "The Simpsons", apologize (or, perhaps, not...) for "farking" in public, look down on hoity-toity intellectuals for being "smark", and send valentines to each other festooned with "hearks".

Hope that clears up my position for you, Frank. Now I'm curious as to how you would relate eduation to grammatical speech?
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WalMarts

Postby AHalfmann » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:00 am

My mama, who has a MA from an accredited Southern university, refers to WalMart, in her proper NE Texas twang, as WalMarts. And she makes it close to a three-syllable word. I've corrected this woman a few times, then just gave up. Now, I think it's a hoot. And my kids - her grandkids - just roll when she says it. I think she does it now just for their entertainment??
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Re: KMark & WalMark

Postby scw1217 » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:10 pm

jozziejane wrote:In Chattanooga, TN, there are a lot of people who use KMark instead of Kmart and Walmark instead of Walmart. This drives me nuts. Anyone else ever hear of such? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

JJ


Yes! I have a relative who does so. Thought I was the only one who has noticed it.

My mama, who has a MA from an accredited Southern university, refers to WalMart, in her proper NE Texas twang, as WalMarts. And she makes it close to a three-syllable word. I've corrected this woman a few times, then just gave up. Now, I think it's a hoot. And my kids - her grandkids - just roll when she says it. I think she does it now just for their entertainment??


LOL. Good to know I am not the only one laughing at my relatives. :lol: But then again, as my husband so aptly reminds me, I often say "pilla" instead of "pillow".
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litte off the walmark but same vicinity

Postby Maygen » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:39 am

I went to school in Northern Michigan....I always had an issue with some of my friends (black) who were born in Michigan, saying asked or ask as axed or axe. I noticed when I became a truck driver this is very popular in the south among black folk and some white folk. It is like wash and warsh... adding letters.

You know I often wonder if that is how we came up with slang...all the extra letters in words that don't get used and ones we eliminate with apostrophes...we figure heck since they aren't being used there...we will put them to good use in a new word. lol
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Re: litte off the walmark but same vicinity

Postby frank » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:37 am

Maygen wrote:I always had an issue with some of my friends (black) who were born in Michigan, saying asked or ask as axed or axe. I noticed when I became a truck driver this is very popular in the south among black folk and some white folk. It is like wash and warsh... adding letters.

Well, actually, 'aks' is much older a form than 'ask'. It's found back in OE (acsian), in ME the forms 'asken' and 'aksen' existed, 'aks' is still used in some English dialects. For one or another reason, 'ask' was chosen to be the standard form...

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Postby Stargzer » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:34 pm

Ax Frank a question, he'll tell you no lies!

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

ax[sup]2[/sup]

PRONUNCIATION: ăks
VERB: Inflected forms: ax·ed, ax·ing, ax·es
Nonstandard Variant of ask.
OUR LIVING LANGUAGE: Ax, a common nonstandard variant of ask, is often identified as an especially salient feature of African American Vernacular English. While it is true that the form is frequent in the speech of African Americans, it used to be common in the speech of white Americans as well, especially in New England. This should not be surprising since ax is a very old word in English, having been used in England for over 1,000 years.[emphasis added] In Old English we find both āscian and ācsian, and in Middle English both asken and axen. Moreover, the forms with cs or x had no stigma associated with them. Chaucer used asken and axen interchangeably, as in the lines “I wol aske, if it hir will be/To be my wyf” and “Men axed hym, what sholde bifalle,” both from The Canterbury Tales. The forms in x arose from the forms in sk by a linguistic process called metathesis, in which two sounds are reversed. The x thus represents (ks), the flipped version of (sk). Metathesis is a common linguistic process around the world and does not arise from a defect in speaking. Nevertheless, ax has become stigmatized as substandard—a fate that has befallen other words, like ain't, that were once perfectly acceptable in literate circles.
Regards//Larry

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Re: KMark & WalMark

Postby Perry » Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:21 am

jozziejane wrote:In Chattanooga, TN, there are a lot of people who use KMark instead of Kmart and Walmark instead of Walmart. This drives me nuts. Anyone else ever hear of such? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

JJ


This reminds me of something from my long years in Israel. The majority of folks out there refer to the Japanese auto Mitsubishi as "Mitsibushi". Just don't axe me why.
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Re: KMark & WalMark

Postby frank » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:21 pm

This reminds me of something from my long years in Israel. The majority of folks out there refer to the Japanese auto Mitsubishi as "Mitsibushi". Just don't axe me why.

Well, if we follow the line of reasoning of Joytoy e.a. it's because they're uneducated and ignorant, no?
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Postby Bailey » Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:15 pm

It might be best to not be bandying about terms like uneducated and ignorance, and oh yes, I do know the exact meaning of each but as a perjorative they are not in any way accurate.
For instance I know of a person suffering from a real mental illness, that includes a severe lack of social skills, who has managed to graduate from a major University.
While this person still lives at home and is not functional in any real sense of the word 'they' do hold forth on message boards like this one.
I know of another who has had not attended any school of higher learning (so-called) yet manages a successful business and is quite adept ay mental maneuverings.
I know of yet another person who could be termed a moron who can add sums more quickly than my fingers can work the calculator.
And of course there are totally normal/average people who are educated and rather than toot a horn about it, tend to be very down-to-earth, yet have their own skills and talents that many people never see.
All I'm saying is we all have something to contribute and name-calling is wrong.
In some countries people are judged by their accents and regional speech idiocracies but as for me I believe that's JUST NOT RIGH!

mark

Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Make the most of it...
kb








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Postby frank » Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:43 pm

Bailey wrote:In some countries people are judged by their accents and regional speech idiocracies but as for me I believe that's JUST NOT RIGHT!

Amen to that.
I'm re-reading Marcos Bagno on this kind of issues, and he simply equates it with racism. Bagno's works sometimes read as pamphlets rather than 'scholarly' texts -- especially Preconceito lingüístico --, but he makes some strong points, hitting the nail right on the head (if that is also the expression in English). Also Language Myths , a booklet edited by the sociolinguist Trudgill (and easily available) goes in the same direction.
I recommend it to everybody who want to upgrade their, erm, linguistic education :wink:

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