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Spanish grammar mistake

A discussion of the peculiarities of languages and the differences between them.

Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:52 pm

Almost every year of his reign Charlemagne is forced to go and vanquish the Saxons again and has to re-Christianize them on the spot.

I don`t see any problem in using the present first and then the past, unlike your professor, since the dates (between 1726 and 1815) tell you when the narrated occurrences happen. Besides, he`s free to condemn whatever he pleases in his students`papers, and they have to conform to their teacher`s whims to get a passing grade. In the real world, that`s not how things stand.
Entre 1726 a 1815, los académicos despojan al idioma de muchos colgajos etimológicos y la hacen más sencilla y práctica. Algunos criterios fijados en esa época siguen vigentes hoy, como las reglas de la b y la v y la escritura de c y z. También se cambiaron palabras como dotor, efeto y sinificar por los actuales doctor, efecto y significar.

But I still see a minor mistake in the above paragraph, maybe too a subtle one. Can anybody else spot it?

The verb tense that I found odd, as you guys have pointed out, is the hubiese instead of hubiera. So, here you go, an answer to someone`s question (I can`t remember who now).

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Postby tcward » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:08 pm

BD, are you talking about this:

Entre 1726 a 1815...


I would have used y instead of a, but I've already shown my ignorance once... :P

-Tim
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Postby Apoclima » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:27 pm

I think you helped point it out, BD!

I don't know why I didn't see this before!

BD:
(between 1726 and 1815)


"Entre 1726 y 1815"

or:

"Desde 1726 a 1815"

Is that what you mean, BD?

So, I won't argue with you about the 'welcome' stylistic relief of the use of the simple past in the middle of the "presente histórico." This does, however, violate the continuity of tenses, a fairly well-recognized phenomenon.

Apo
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Postby Apoclima » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:29 pm

Hey, Tim, you beat me this time!

Way to go!

Apo
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:07 am

You guys got it right, and I'm prone to making that mistake, it doesn't matter what language I'm writing in. I guess my head has somehow between something to something encoded that I can only see it the second or third time I read something. How many mistakes of that sort do I make when I'm speaking and don't realize them until it's too late! :oops:

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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:50 pm

Boy, it's easy, esp. while writing, one can be sure that one has written something, and you look again, and a word is wrong or missing!

Apo
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Postby M. Henri Day » Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:37 pm

Brazilian dude wrote:I don't know how to delete the first one ...

BD, if you look at the upper right-hand corner of your first posting, you will see a button marked with a cross. My guess is that if you click on it (as in the case of the «edit» button, you are the only one who can do so), the posting will be removed....

Henri
Last edited by M. Henri Day on Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:46 pm

Henri, I don't see a little button marked with a cross in the upper righthand corner, not even on topics that I have started!

So, back to the historical present!

1. ….los académicos despojan al idioma…..
2. ….lo hacen más sencillo….
3. Algunos criterios fijados en esa época siguen vigentes hoy….
4. ….se cambiaron palabras…. por los actuales….
5. La Real Academia Española elabora tres obras fundamentales….


1. historical present
2. historical present
3. simple present
4. preterite
5. historical present


Just for fun and 'stylistic' practice! How about this?

1. ….los académicos despojan al idioma…..
2. ….lo hacen más sencillo….
3. Algunos criterios fijados en esa época han seguido vigentes hoy….
4. ….se han cambiado palabras…. por los actuales….
5. La Real Academia Española elabora tres obras fundamentales….

1. historical present
2. historical present
3. present perfect
4. present perfect
5. historical present

Apo
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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:40 pm

Wow! I came back and there was the little button with a cross in the upper-right hand corner!

Does it only appear when you come from your email?

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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:42 pm

Apparently it is only on the last post on the topic, if that is yours!

Apo
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Postby M. Henri Day » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:25 am

Apoclima wrote:Henri, I don't see a little button marked with a cross in the upper righthand corner, not even on topics that I have started! ...

Apo, you're quite right ; when after reading your posting I checked again, I didn't see that button either ! Was I dreaming yesterday ? Another strange thing I discovered is that clicking on the «edit» button no longer provides, as (I am convinced) it did earlier, access at the bottom of the frame to an option which enables one to delete one's own posting. But if one places the cursor on the «edit» button and waits, the following tag appears :
Edit/Delete this post

which to me indicates that one should be able delete one's own posting by using the button. Alas, I fear that only our good ashaffer is in a postion to help us out of this quandry !...

Henri
曾记否,到中流击水,浪遏飞舟?
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:02 am

Just for fun and 'stylistic' practice! How about this?

1. ….los académicos despojan al idioma…..
2. ….lo hacen más sencillo….
3. Algunos criterios fijados en esa época han seguido vigentes hoy….
4. ….se han cambiado palabras…. por los actuales….
5. La Real Academia Española elabora tres obras fundamentales….

1. historical present
2. historical present
3. present perfect
4. present perfect
5. historical present

Your suggestions look good to me, except number 3. IMHO only the present would be possible here. If you are to use the pretérito perfecto, you would have to say hasta hoy.

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Postby Apoclima » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:13 pm

Fair enough, BD!

If you are to use the pretérito perfecto, you would have to say hasta hoy.


"han seguido vigentes hasta hoy"

And, thanks, Henri!

Apo
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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:37 pm

This is what I found in reading Selecciones, the Spanish version of Reader's Digest. What do our Spanish experts on the forum have to say?

Entrevista con Alejandro Sanz:
¿Cómo es lo de la fundación de la India?
En realidad es de Nacho Cano, el ex integrante del grupo Mecano. Trabajan con niñas de la calle. Les dan de comer, por supuesto, para enseñarles y cuidarles su educación. Lo que hice fue dar dinero para una escuela de música donde puedan estudiar y organizar una orquesta. Hay algo que se llama miseria y que está mucho más adentro que el propio hambre. El hambre se quita con un plato de arroz, pero la miseria sólo con ilusiones, y la música me parece que es un buen método para fomentarlas.

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Postby Apoclima » Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:47 pm

Lo que hice fue dar dinero para una escuela de música donde puedan estudiar y organizar una orquesta.


The tenses seem out of wack here.

If the school exists now:

Lo que hice fue dar dinero para una escuela de música donde pueden estudiar y organizar una orquesta.

If the school does not exist yet:

Lo que hice fue dar dinero para una escuela de música donde pudieran estudiar y organizar una orquesta.

Apo
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