Wampumpeag

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Wampumpeag

Postby Dr. Goodword » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:30 pm

• wampumpeag •


Pronunciation: wahm-pêm-peeg • Hear it!

Part of Speech: Noun, mass

Meaning: Beads made from shells and used by the Algonquian tribes as money for trade at the time the first Europeans arrived in Massachusetts; usually shortened to wampum in English.

Notes: Today's word was used widely by early settlers in New England but later it was cut into wampum and peag, which were used with the same meaning as the original. A similar currency of less value, called roanoke, was used by the Native Americans in Virginia. Roanoke today is a lovely city located in central Virginia.
Image
In Play: Don't bring me to the casinoIt is difficult to believe that the first settlers in the North American colonies used the monetary system of the Native Americans. The early colonists traded a lot with Native Americans, but initially had no means of securing printed money. So article 154 of the General Laws of Massachusetts of 1643 reads as follows: "Wampampeag shall pass currant [sic] in the payment of Debts, to the payment of forty shillings, the white at eight a penny, the black at four, so as they be entire without breaches or deforming spots."

Word History: Wampumpeag came from one of the Algonquian languages, probably Abnaki. The original was probably wampampiak "white beads". This supposition is based on the existence of related words such as Abnaki wambambiar "string of beads" and Delaware wapapi "white wampum". The word is a compound of two elements, wamp- "white" + *ampi "bead" + the Algonquin plural ending -ag. The division of the word into wampum and peag resulted from Europeans misanalyzing the compound under the influence of English syllable structure.
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damoge
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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby damoge » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:48 pm

I'm sure you've all already heard of my favorite Wampanoag place name.
Chargogagogmanchogagogchebunamungagog.
(sometimes also spelled
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
but I think that's a bit much, don't you?)
It's the name of a lake near the center of the state, prosaically named Webster Lake by the English who were without any joy in their souls evidently.
The name is reputed to mean
you fish on your side, i'll fish on my side, and no one shall fish in the middle.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving, and, perhaps, include thanks to the people who by right own this country, for such a good and melodious word.

Debby M.
Everything works out, one way or another

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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby David Myer » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:46 pm

Splendid, Debby. Thanks for that. Interesting that the end of your lengthy place name uses the similar construction at the end to the longest place name in Wales:
Llanfairpwll-gwyngyllgogerychwyrndrob-wllllantysiliogogogoch

This -gogagog part of the word is there three times in your Wampum name and traces of it appear several times in the Welsh one.

This is surely an extraordinary coincidence? There can be no cross-pollination between Welsh and native American languages, can there?

We always referred to the Welsh town as Llanfairgogagoch for ease, but others abbreviate it differently.
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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby LukeJavan8 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:11 pm

There is a legend/myth that a Welsh prince named Madoc
made his way to what is now North Dakota, and the
Mandan Indians knew them and there was some
sort of interrelation .

I've been to that Welsh town with the long name. Saw it in my
geography book in 6th grade with the curious long name. Was
a delight to have a kids' dream fulfilled. Had a boy living there
take a piece of slate, for which Wales is known, and write the
name of the town on the slate, which I have on my den wall.
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby David Myer » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Extraordinary story, Luke. It is inconceivable that there is no connection, although your legend is not entirely convincing! Research online shows that the Welsh town got its extended name in the 1880s and the gogagoch bit is welsh for red cave. Presumably the native American word was coined much earlier? Debby's suggestion that it may have a Scottish connection seems similarly implausible despite the fascinating video about how the Scots stumbled into North America a hundred years before Columbus. I imagine the Columbus story is now so well entrenched that any suggestion of an earlier 'discovery' would be howled down.

Certainly many Europeans came upon the Australian continent before Captain Cook, but they tend to be swept under the carpet by those with vested interests in the Cook legend.
Last edited by David Myer on Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

damoge
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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby damoge » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:18 pm

When the name of Lake Webster was spelled as it now officially is, I had the sneaking suspicion the good folk in the area were trying to best Llanfair in length. As far as I know, the lake's name is the longest place name in the States, but I refuse to count up the number of letters in it, or in the Welsh contender. I understand Llanfair claims longest in the world.
As for Welsh in this area, would you settle for Scots?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFDT49J ... fC8FFV_GdV

After you've had a good giggle on that one, please know that a local fellow, so tired of the claims, connected the dots on the rock (at least 40 years ago when there were still so many more of them) and came up with a good likeness of a sleigh pulled by 8 reindeer. I don't remember if the driver was in charge at the moment, or busy off making deliveries.

Or if not Scots, Irish? There is a place not far from Westford, over the line in New Hampshire, and the owner of the site claimed that it was visited by and built by Druids from Ireland. I can't remember when he claims they were there. The site has a number of shelters in the woods on a hill, made of stacked slate and other rock.
He claimed that is a unique construction method that means it had to be Irish visitors. Of course, that means that all the folks moving West in the 1800s who built sod houses on the way were Irish as well, I guess.
Additionally, my sister was an archaeologist. She had examined the site before he opened it to the public, and found glass bottles from the 1800s under the walls in places.
Kind of interesting that they could pick up the walls and insert the bottles centuries afterwards.

Here's the site's explanation
https://www.stonehengeusa.com/

and here a slightly more realistic one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Stonehenge

Enjoy!!
Everything works out, one way or another

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LukeJavan8
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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby LukeJavan8 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:40 pm

-----please, draw me a sheep-----

David Myer
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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby David Myer » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:47 pm

Well, according to Luke's Wikipedia reference, Columbus was preceded three hundred years earlier by this Madoc fellow.

But also in Wikipedia I discover that the long American name was invented in the 1920s. But an earlier version of the name, Chargoggagoggmanchoggagogg was found on a 1795 map. The ogagog bit is clearly there twice. So if the ogagog bit means red cave in Welsh, we have to ask if the area has red caves? Of course even in 1795 there could have been some Welsh influence in the name. Wiki says it is Algonquian language and none of its possible meanings seems to relate to red caves. It is all very strange to me.

And Debby, I am certainly inclined to share your sister's scepticism on the USA druid connection. 19th century bottles found under dark ages constructions does seem contradictory!

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LukeJavan8
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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby LukeJavan8 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:18 am

The Llanfair name translated is

"The Church of St. Mary near the white hazel,
near the fierce whirlpool and the Church of
St. Tisilio near the Red Cave."

There you have it: whatever that is
-----please, draw me a sheep-----

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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby Philip Hudson » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:02 pm

When Wales is mentioned I always chime in. It is one of the loveliest places on God's green earth. I have been able to visit it twice and would like to go again. On one visit to Wales, while scaling a not so high mountain, I sat down on a bench and looked back to a small church I had just visited. A young lady came and sat beside me. I asked her about the church graveyard in the distance and asked why there were no Joneses , Evanses or Apelets buried there. She replied, "Ah, but that is a Church of Wales [Episcopal in the USA]. All of us Joneses, Evanses and Applets are Baptists."
It is dark at night, but the Sun will come up and then we can see.

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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby David Myer » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:39 am

:D

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Re: Wampumpeag

Postby David Myer » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:56 am

I have just been moved to check up on dear St Tysilio whose name is included in that ridiculous Welsh town with the long name.

Wikipedia says:

"Saint Tysilio was a Welsh bishop, prince and scholar, son of the reigning King of Powys, Brochwel Ysgithrog,[1] maternal nephew of the great Abbot Dunod of Bangor Iscoed and an ecclesiastic who took a prominent part in the affairs of Wales during the distressful period at the opening of the 7th century."

Now, am I getting old and cantankerous for the sake of it? Or is this 'distressful' word a nonsense? What does distressful mean that stressful doesn't? Or is the 'dis' part indeed a negative implying that this period was actually carefree?


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