Waiter

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Waiter

Postby Dr. Goodword » Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:16 pm

• waiter •


Pronunciation: wayd-êr • Hear it!

Part of Speech: Noun

Meaning: 1. A server, a man who waits tables in a restaurant. 2. A uniformed attendant at a British city or financial institution. 3. A person who waits expectantly.

Notes: You may have wondered at some point why a person we usually want to hurry is called a waiter (see Word History for the reason). It comes with a feminine alternative, waitress, avoided in the States for political reasons. Waiterage "waiter's duties", waiterdom "waiters as a class", and waiterhood "state of a waiter" have all been tried but today are rarely heard or read.

In Play: Almost all cafes and restaurants have waiters: "I never eat in an Italian restaurant that doesn't have a singing waiter." In the UK we might hear something like this: "Ty Kuhn keeps his account with an old establishment bank, replete with mahogany walls, black-coated waiters and grandfather clocks." Many apartments built in the 20s and 30s have a "dumb waiter", a tiny elevator in the wall for bringing things up to the floors above and taking them back down.

Word History: Today's Good word was taken from Anglo-French waitier "to watch", from Old French gaitier "watch out for, lie in wait" (Modern French guetter). French borrowed its word from Frankish wahton "watch out for, guard) or some other Germanic source with a word based on Old Germanic waht- "watch (out for)". The Old Germanic word gave rise to Dutch waken "to watch", English watch, German wachten "to watch", Swedish vakta "to watch", and Danish vogte "to watch". (Since French has no [w], they replaced W with GU [gw], which later reduced to G.) Old Germanic inherited its word from PIE weg- "be strong, awake". We find this word in its progeny: Sanskrit vuajayati "stimulates, drives", Latin vigil "awake, alert", English wake, German wecken "wake (up)", and Danish wække "wake, arouse".
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Slava
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Re: Waiter

Postby Slava » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:04 pm

If you go to a self-serve restaurant, will you experience waitlessness?
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Re: Waiter

Postby David Myer » Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:24 am

Nice one, Slava. :D

The Good Doctor's explanation suggests that the source of all three meanings is the same. So when you wait at the bus stop, you are watching for the next bus. Makes sense. Interesting that a waiter on table has to do more than merely watch, he or she must actually look after or care for the diners. Perhaps server or servant would be a better descriptor.

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Re: Waiter

Postby bbeeton » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:21 am

In fact, David, "server" has in these parts pretty much replaced "waiter", since it avoids the gender-specific "waitress", and is easier on the ears than "waitperson", which had a moderately active run.

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Re: Waiter

Postby Philip Hudson » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:33 pm

Here in the hinterlands we still use the words waiter and waitress. Gender specifics do not bother us. In the good old days, a café was often the place for a girl to work while looking for a significant other. Cupid was likely to show up at any time. Several of my aunts and uncles made the connubial connection that way. One of my uncles took me with him to Ray's Café to pick up his intended and take her to a welcoming party at the family farm house. I was amazed at the amount of smooching that could be done while driving with the left hand with a four on the floor stick shift. If you have ever had a waiter in your family you may be inclined to tip lavishly while dining out.
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Re: Waiter

Postby George Kovac » Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:34 pm

In fact, David, "server" has in these parts pretty much replaced "waiter", since it avoids the gender-specific "waitress", and is easier on the ears than "waitperson", which had a moderately active run.

Language, as I have ranted previously, is not logic, and its inconsistencies reflect the culture in which words arise and morph.

But, but, sometimes even I am weary of the process....

The current gender consternation in common English nouns is an example. And to me, confusing, because English, unlike many other modern European languages, is virtually gender free in its structure. "Waiter" fell victim to this trend. The politically correct replacements strike me as arch, self-conscious and misplaced. Why must we assume "waiter" is inherently masculine and therefore must be rooted out of the vocabulary? If so, why is "server" exempt from this cleansing process? We accept that "doctor" and "nurse" can refer to someone male or female. Most notably, the word "actor" recently morphed quietly in usage to refer to either men or women, without damage to clarity, culture or the logic of English usage. Why can't we do more of that for nouns we think (wrongly, IMHO) are sexist and avoid language drama? Where a noun is irredeemably and unnecessarily gender specific, fix it, but leave the other nouns alone. (Example of the former: I noticed in a religious context, the traditional references to "our forefathers" changed to "our forebearers" though some congregations changed to the dysphonious phrase "our fore-fathers and -mothers"

(sigh)... as to the burning question "what are my pronouns?" my solution is to go all Turkish, a gender-enlightened non-Indo-European language which anticipated by centuries, and resolved, the the 21st century American panic over the oppression wreaked by gender-specific pronouns: In Turkish, the pronoun "o" can mean "he," "she" or "it."

Sorry, just had to say this about waiters.
"Every battle of ideas is fought on the terrain of language." Zia Haider Rahman, New York Times 4/8/2016

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Re: Waiter

Postby Slava » Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:09 pm

I have to ask, do those religious people really say 'forebearers'? That's just plain wrong, as it is forebears.

Also, now what I thinks on it, there doesn't seem to have been a mother of an equivalent for forefather.

Hang on, I stand corrected, there is such a foremother, only I've never seen it. Only just now, looking it up on the internot I see that there was such a critter back in the 16th century.
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Re: Waiter

Postby George Kovac » Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:14 pm

Slava,

I confess, I don’t remember if the exact phrase used was “forebearers”, “forbears” or “four bears.” My attendance at religious services is spotty. Mostly I go to learn of any recent rule changes, and find out if it is now OK to do stuff that previously would consign me to hell.

All I remember about the forefathers dilemma is that they changed a standard refrain to include women among the honored ancestors. Though the linguistic work-around sounded awkward to my ear when I first heard it, I did approve of the effort. Most of the popular religions today remain burdened by a misogynist tradition (whether inadvertent, benign, unexamined, patronizing, or intentionally malevolent) and I applaud any honest attempts (even if clumsy) to root out systemic linguistic misogyny in religion. And I am sure that if God were asked about the words we use in services, He/She/They/O would approve of our imperfect efforts to make the words we use to pray match our beliefs.
"Every battle of ideas is fought on the terrain of language." Zia Haider Rahman, New York Times 4/8/2016

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Re: Waiter

Postby Philip Hudson » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:14 pm

This good word discussion, both from the Good Doctor and the various members, have greatly enlarged my understanding. Thank y'all for contributing.
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Re: Waiter

Postby David Myer » Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:44 am

Bravo, George. You have expressed my sentiments more eloquently than I could have hoped to express by myself.

I must add that the hideously contrived use of 'them' causes awful problems. "I asked Terry and they agreed. They is sensible, isn't they?"

When a person's gender is irrelevant, the word 'it' seems to me to be infinitely preferable to 'they'.

David Myer (preferred pronoun it/its)
Last edited by David Myer on Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Waiter

Postby bnjtokyo » Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:01 am

Japanese is another language that doesn't use many pronouns. In the shop, it is not necessary to say to the shop keeper, "Do you have any bananas?" but instead "Are there any bananas?" When talking about the greengrocer to my neighbor, I don't need to say "He/she/it is a helpful man/woman" but "Greengrocer-san is helpful."

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Re: Waiter

Postby David Myer » Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:34 am

Most interesting, bnj. It is as though there is an effort to avoid the personal. Is the language also heavy in passive voice? I am coming in May next year to do a walk on the Izu peninsular, but in anticipation I am trying to get a feel for the language style - I can't hope to manage anything more than a few words, but understanding the style of the language should help. What is the word for Fantastic? I find that knowledge of that one is really useful when travelling, and usually much appreciated. I should learn that one at least.

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Re: Waiter

Postby bnjtokyo » Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:12 am

Mr Meyer, it is impossible to summarize Japanese in a few words, so I'll try to address your specific questions
1) It is not so much an avoidance of the personal but an desire to avoid offending/irritating the addressee. The standard is to be polite to the guest, to the customer.
2) The passive voice exists and is used but not that much
3) "Fantastic" in what sense? "Sugoi" means "amazing/suprising"
"subarashii" means "wonderful/great" "kirei" means "beautiful/clean/spic-and-span"

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Re: Waiter

Postby Debbymoge » Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:31 pm

"1) It is not so much an avoidance of the personal but a desire to avoid offending/irritating the addressee. The standard is to be polite to the guest, to the customer."

Would that that could become the standard here, not only to the guest or customer, but to the neighbor and relative and person next to one in line at the grocery store as it seemed to me to be so in Japan.
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Re: Waiter

Postby LukeJavan8 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:08 pm

Actor/Actress
-Actor seems to cover both genders, except during Oscar night.
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