German....

KatyBr
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German....

Postby KatyBr » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:42 pm

from this for that, in Chicago

Meaning: To reciprocate in kind.
Example: In most political campaigns, once the mud slinging starts, it becomes a game of tit for tat.
Origin: Derived from the German phrase "Dir fur Dat", or this for that.


see: http://members.aol.com/MorelandC/HaveOrigins.htm

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Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:17 pm

But Dir is the dative form of du and dat doesn't even exist, does it? Dat exists in Dutch, though.

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Postby KatyBr » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:38 pm

BD, go to the site I quoted and tell them!

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Postby Apoclima » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:39 pm

Tit for Tat

You are right, BD, in principle! (thank anders for that obscurity)

"Dir fuer dat!" = "To you for that"

"Dir" is the dative of "Du," meaning usually "for, to you (sing. familiar), but "dat" is the Low German (Plattdeutsch) word for "das," meaning "that."

Low German dialects sound like Dutch or even English rather than standard German.


In this small chart one can see some of the differences.

I was in Duesberg and heard "dat" for "das." I am not familiar with the Berlin Dialect which changes the vowel to "e" - "det."

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Postby Brazilian dude » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:40 pm

Well, I agree, but when someone mentions the word German to you, you think of High German (Hochdeutsch), don't you? I know that I do.

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Postby KatyBr » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:24 pm

but when someone mentions the word German to you, you think of High German (Hochdeutsch), don't you?


I suppose you would if you hadn't learned German from a peasant in 1950.

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Postby tcward » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:19 pm

BD, when you hear the word "Português", what do you think?

-Tim

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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:17 am

Sure, I think of Hochdeutsch first when I hear the word German, but my experience with Germans was that I was the only one in the group even trying to speak Hochdeutsch.

Yes, BD, Plattdeutsch is German too; so is Koelsch, the dialect of Cologne!

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Postby KatyBr » Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:40 am

OH no, how did I create a new thread? I 'm not liking this.

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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:33 am

Relax! I kinda like these twin threads! It's so disorienting!

This one can be "tit" and the other can be "tat."

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Postby anders » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:24 am

The German(ic) demonstratives have many forms. I believe that the expression is "dit fVr dat", 'this for that'. The generic vowel 'V' in 'for' depends on whether the loan is from a HG dialect, Low German, Dutch or Yiddish. I think that all of them are possible but would favour Dutch "dit voor dat". The "v" often has a unique pronunciation, somewhere between 'v' and 'f'; many speakers don't make a diffrence betewen 'v' and 'f'.
Irren ist männlich

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Postby Apoclima » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:49 am

I have hear "Dit fuer Dat" in Plattdeutsch!

And I am not sure, because of Hochdeutsch, that I am not looking for a front rounded high vowel there at all!

That translates exactly as "This for that!"

"Dir" is not the source of "That."

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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:55 am

BD, when you hear the word "Português", what do you think?

I think of Portuguese, there's no high or low Portuguese, it's only one language. I don't speak any dialect, and I haven never heard of Portuguese dialects, unless you considered Brazilian is a dialect of Portuguese.

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Postby tcward » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:44 am

I do consider Brazilian Portuguese a dialect of Portuguese, just as I consider American English a dialect of English.

And when you heard "Portuguese", you didn't think of your own dialect of Portuguese first?

When I hear "English", in the context of languages, unless there is some reason for me to think of British English first, I always think of US English, because that is the dialect I am accustomed to hearing and speaking.

You're ruining my point! :P

Katy's use of the word "German" to describe the language she was quoting was because that is the German she was accustomed to hearing at the time.

And now, after all this, I'm not sure I have been able to make the point, what with all the circuitous talk of dialects and languages...

-Tim :?

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Postby Brazilian dude » Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:49 am

A languages is a dialect with an army.

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