use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

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Roy Rogers
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use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Roy Rogers » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:07 pm

It is generally said that the US and the West, in general, model their laws and traditions on "Judeo-Christian" values. Fine. One wonders for how long this descriptive phrase has been in use and if there is any known origin as one does not see it, to my knowledge, in literary works of the 18the century; but we certainly heard and saw such references in the last three decades of the 20th century. From where, and perhaps, whom, did it arise? Any clues?

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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Slava » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:28 pm

From my quick wander among the pages of the Internet, it seems no one agrees on a first use date. Some go back to the 18th century, others only to the late 19th. However, all seem to agree that it really got going in WWII. Not everyone is convinced there really is such a thing, though. One article I glanced at debunks the theory as a myth.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the Agora.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Roy Rogers » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:38 pm

Thank you. It is my weak memory that such a theme in values has been widely accepted for centuries, though finding confirmation of the initial use of the phrase has been, as you saw, vague. It may be one of those things that we are sure we heard someone use at a vaguely unspecific time, but finding a citation is not immediately facile.

Thank you.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Perry Lassiter » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:24 pm

Perhaps the concept of including both is to include Jewish persons who do not accept Christian values, whatever they are. Indeed, both religions have debates over most values. For example, does the command against killing extend to self defense, mercy killing, euthanasia, war...? I suspect the revival of its frequent use may be in opposition to the rise of a secular society.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Roy Rogers » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:33 pm

That is an interesting angle. I have an online "friend" who asserted that it is meant to differentiate the West from Russia who, in that context, is meant to take the fall for the traditionally expected War of Gog and Magog.

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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Perry Lassiter » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:11 pm

Don't think so. The gog/magog thing, while Biblical, is interpreted as allegorical by most, except for those with a particular eschatalogical interpretation.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby bailey66 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:55 pm

Perry Lassiter wrote:Don't think so. The gog/magog thing, while Biblical, is interpreted as allegorical by most, except for those with a particular eschatalogical interpretation.



PL, I know I'm not by any stretch of the imagination "most", but i am pretty sure Gog and Magog are not allegorical, I've always thought because of several references around the mentions of Gog that it is Russia, or some part of it. GEOGRAPHICALLY SPEAKING. And that Magog is a person or personality of Spiritual essense.

Welcome to Roy, who "triggered" this discussion which I'd really love to delve into if others wish it also.

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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby bailey66 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:59 pm

I want to comment also on the fact that "our fight is not with flesh and blood but powers and principalities......"

Powers= spiritual beings ( Magog) who rule certain Principalities (places)=Gog. But maybe I'm overreaching.


But i don't see any coorelation with Judeo-Christian and Gog/magog

I think the phrase Judeo-Christian usually refers to the law as in the Mosaic law- the ten commandments And the Bible shared by both Judiasm and Christianity. Loosely speaking of course.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Roy Rogers » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:04 pm

Gentlemen,

The Term Gog amongst those who are more learned than I in such matters generally is accepted to be a reference to include "Edom"; and this collective noun, as it must be, always includes a reference to Rome. I'll not go off into the discussions pertaining to members of Hebrew tribes going north further than Rome in times prior to its political ascent. However, when one discusses "Edom", it often refers collectively to what we may refer to as the "West", meaning to include all of Europe as well as the US. Some speak in terms of Russia, but the more common reference to "Edom" is far more inclusive of the world developed after the origins of common civilisation in Judea and Samaria.

The term, "Judeo-Christian" is generally agreed, in my understanding, to represent the value system begun out of the giving of the Ten Commandments and their adoption, for the most part, by the break-away Christian sect as it developed in the first four centuries CE.

But the question was more one of trying to find when this term came into general use and understanding as I recall it in university and general academic discussions far too many years ago.

Thank you for your input thus far.

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Roy
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phraersuafese

Postby bailey66 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:26 pm

Well Edom makes sense, especially since there is so much in the major prophets that speaks of how very much it is 'disapproved of' by God.

I had never really believed it was Russia except so many argued so loudly that it was; I began to be persuaded. Even espousing it. I much appreciate Roy setting me straight. I think my biggest problem is just not understanding politics. Well, in this respect, Got me lots of OTHER PROBS, tho'.

But back to the Judeo-Christian phrase.......

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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Slava » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:27 pm

I decided to delve a bit deeper into this and discovered that the term is not an entry in either my Britannica (1956) or World Book (1962). I looked on the internot a bit more and found that, while there are attempts at putting a definition into words, there is great debate as to just what those words boil down to. It appears to me that it is a convenient phrase that everyone knows when they see it, like pornography, but cannot tell you just what it is.

Interesting question for theologists to work out and publish a book or so on.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Perry Lassiter » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:33 pm

Slava, the have been multiple books, articles, and commentaries on eschatology, which include gog and magog. I don't read Revelation as primarily future history, except for the last couple of chapters. To me it's a response to a historical situation and a type of literature known as apocalyptic. It's mostly a Jewish form coming out of persecution, meant to encourage the downtrodden of God's ultimate victory. The famous 666 (or 616 from other ancient manuscripts) is gematria for Nero, not a future antichrist. The woman who sits on seven hills is Rome. Note that Michael defeats the devil and his angels "by the blood of the lamb," not with weapons. The apocalyptic gospel is the same as that of the four Gospels and Paul.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Slava » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:55 pm

I guess I wasn't clear in my last post. I was not talking about Gog and Magog, but about the original post's Judeo-Christian phrase.

Now that I've typed it, I see that the Firefox spellchecker doesn't like it, either.
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Re: use of Judeo-Christian as a descriptive phrase

Postby Roy Rogers » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:44 am

Perry,

I would submit that the Hebrew end-of-days interpretation and that of the offshoot Christian world are quite different. I wouldn't go into the difference between the "second coming" and the appearance of Moshiach; but the "Judeo-Christian" phrase is not only not a spell check item in my Firefox, but surely has a reference point origin somewhere; though it may be as pointed out, something everyone knows and can recognise when they reference it... though would widely differ on its elements and dimensions.
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