Dudgeon
- Dr. Goodword
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Re: Dudgeon
The problem is that in other languages "masculine" and "feminine" are random grammatical categories that grammar insists on respecting. Kniga "book" in Russian is "feminine" and stol "table" is masculine even though they are unsexed.
Grammarians in centuries past misnamed these categories because women are usually categorized as "feminine" and men, "masculine". If a noun is feminine the corresponding pronoun must be ona and, if masculine, the pronoun must be on even if the noun is unsexed. Translating these pronouns as "she" and "he" is a mistake.
English doesn't have this kind of "masculine" and "feminine" distinction, so we can argue that he always refers to men and she always refers to women. The problem arises when gender is irrelevant. (It is never irrelevant in other European languages.) For example, "The PU student can be proud of [his?/her?] degree." The general rule is that in these cases agreement resorts to masculine, since student has no gender in English.
English provides a generic pronoun for most of these situations: they.
Grammarians in centuries past misnamed these categories because women are usually categorized as "feminine" and men, "masculine". If a noun is feminine the corresponding pronoun must be ona and, if masculine, the pronoun must be on even if the noun is unsexed. Translating these pronouns as "she" and "he" is a mistake.
English doesn't have this kind of "masculine" and "feminine" distinction, so we can argue that he always refers to men and she always refers to women. The problem arises when gender is irrelevant. (It is never irrelevant in other European languages.) For example, "The PU student can be proud of [his?/her?] degree." The general rule is that in these cases agreement resorts to masculine, since student has no gender in English.
English provides a generic pronoun for most of these situations: they.
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Re: Dudgeon
It also explains why newcomers to English from languages with gender can be caught saying things like "the car, she is going fast." Or "the truck, he cannot stop."
pl
Re: Dudgeon
I like: the jig, she is up.
Re: Dudgeon
That's a real kick in the pants or skirt as the case may be.I like: the jig, she is up.
I have been entertained over the years by my Chinese relations' seemingly random use of he and she. Somewhere in their brains they flip the gender coin, emasculating males and masculinizing females, willy-nilly. "John Wayne, she," "Angelina Jolie, he..."
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Re: Dudgeon
Now Gail has me wondering why the jig, she is up but not down or all around. Anyone got a clue or clew?
pl
Re: Dudgeon
About the origin of the idiom: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_boar ... s/720.html
But the article does not address your specific question about "up," Perry. For that I went to Dictionary.com which records the 34th definition of "up" as "concluded; ended; finished; terminated: The game is up. Your hour is up."
Why "up" and not "down?" Good question! From a spatial, metaphorical standpoint it would seem "down" is more appropriate.
P.S. To Luke, my grandfather, an old salt, used to ask me as a boy, "Why do they call ships 'she'?'' The politically incorrect 1950s answer, "Because it takes a man to handle her." Well, I'll be going now before..."Splat!" Too late!
But the article does not address your specific question about "up," Perry. For that I went to Dictionary.com which records the 34th definition of "up" as "concluded; ended; finished; terminated: The game is up. Your hour is up."
Why "up" and not "down?" Good question! From a spatial, metaphorical standpoint it would seem "down" is more appropriate.
P.S. To Luke, my grandfather, an old salt, used to ask me as a boy, "Why do they call ships 'she'?'' The politically incorrect 1950s answer, "Because it takes a man to handle her." Well, I'll be going now before..."Splat!" Too late!
Last edited by MTC on Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dudgeon
Uh, nope. Count me out.If we were all neutered it might be easier.
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I'm going to change myself. -- Rumi
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Re: Dudgeon
Some of us are wont to say it... but I won't.I can only raise a state of indifferent dudgeon as to your quest for advanced dudgeon levels.
Meh, I believe Americans are wont to say.
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Re: Dudgeon
So does English: onesTo add to the confusion, Russian has a plural for one.
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Re: Dudgeon
The dudgeon thread surely has taken a different tack. It seems it was sidelined, perhaps even blindsided, by the gender problem.
Of course there is a plural of one in English. One might say, "I have seventeen dollars, all in ones." We also have onesies and twosies.
Of course there is a plural of one in English. One might say, "I have seventeen dollars, all in ones." We also have onesies and twosies.
It is dark at night, but the Sun will come up and then we can see.
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Re: Dudgeon
Different kind of plural. The Russian one is for plural nouns, like glasses or scissors.
Life is like playing chess with chessmen who each have thoughts and feelings and motives of their own.
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Re: Dudgeon
I don't follow you Slava. Please explain or give an example.
It is dark at night, but the Sun will come up and then we can see.
- Slava
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Re: Dudgeon
One use of "odni," the Russian plural for one, would be translated as "some."I don't follow you Slava. Please explain or give an example.
Odni dumayut, chto oni luchse drugikh. Some think they are better than others.
Life is like playing chess with chessmen who each have thoughts and feelings and motives of their own.
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